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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans; boatbums; metmom; kosciusko51

what am i supposed to believe, what St Ignatius wrote or what this person wishes he wrote?

” they abstain from the Eucharist and prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ...”

one more time for those in rio linda land - “ the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ.

i think it is quite clear what Ignatius believed and my previous post contains three other quite clear quotes where he says the same thing.

i do give the man who’s blog you posted credit for one thing, he realizes that he had better try and change what Ignatius had to say.

WHY? because Ignatius was a disciple of the Apostle John, probably of Peter as well and was so well thought of, was made the bishop of Antioch and who’s love for Jesus Christ and the Catholic Faith was beyond question as he gave his life as a martyr in Rome. there is a 99.99999999% probability that Ignatius correctly understood and taught what John believed and taught when it came to the Eucharist and there is a 100% probability that what John taught and believed was the truth!!

so when Ignatius warned that those who deny the gift of God ( the Eucharist ) are perishing in their disputes, he was talking about the Gnostics in his day, but just as easily you can insert Baptist or Presbyterian in that quote. these two groups also deny the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ.

also, notice how Ignatius speaks of the Eucharist as the Body of Christ in a way that assumes the reader of his letter is already a believer in this teaching. how can this be? because the Apostles went all over the known world preaching Christ, baptizing and teaching the Catholic Faith.
what became accepted as “Catholic” is what was believed everywhere and by everyone, including the Real Presence in the Eucharist. you could worship in Egypt, Greece, Rome, Jerusalem, Antioch, Turkey, North Africa, etc in the 1st century and you would receive the Body of Christ in the Eucharist.
so the question for those reading this is, who do you believe was right concerning the Eucharist, Ignatius or the Gnostics??


529 posted on 04/22/2013 8:00:35 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
Perhaps St. Ignatius is talking about the Gnostic heresy of his day. For instance, St. Ignatius speaks of the body and blood in a less literal sense when he said:

You, therefore, must arm yourselves with gentleness and regain your strength in faith (which is the flesh of the Lord) and in love (which is the blood of Jesus Christ). See J. B. Lightfoot and J. R. Harmer, eds. and trans., The Apostolic Fathers: Greek Texts and English Translations of Their Writings, 2nd. ed., The Letters of Ignatius, To the Trallians, Chapter 8 (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1992), p. 163.

Greek text: Ὑμεῖς οὖν τὴν πραϋπάθειαν ἀναλαβόντες ἀνακτίσασθε ἑαυτοὺς ἐν πίστει, ὅ ἐστιν σὰρξ τοῦ κυρίου, καὶ ἐν ἀγάπῃ, ὅ ἐστιν αἷμα Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ. See J. B. Lightfoot and J. R. Harmer, eds. and trans., The Apostolic Fathers: Greek Texts and English Translations of Their Writings, 2nd. ed., The Letters of Ignatius, To the Trallians, Chapter 8 (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1992), p. 162.

Another early church father, Tertullian, in his letter Against Marcion says: "Then, having taken the bread and given it to His disciples, He made it His own body, by saying, 'This is my body,' that is, the figure of my body."

538 posted on 04/22/2013 8:42:18 PM PDT by kosciusko51 (Enough of "Who is John Galt?" Who is Patrick Henry?)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

Furthermore, no Protestant denomination that I know of abstains from the Lord’s Supper, which is what St. Ignatius accuses the Gnostics of doing.


539 posted on 04/22/2013 8:48:01 PM PDT by kosciusko51 (Enough of "Who is John Galt?" Who is Patrick Henry?)
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