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To: count-your-change
Do you really believe that Paul was a polytheist? When Paul says:

2Cr 4:4 "...in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."

There are two ways that this could be interpreted. One, he is about Satan, who is not true God, but a fallen angel. Or he could be alluding to God himself blinding the unbelieving, as indicated in Isaiah 6:9-10, and referenced in Mark 4, Matthew 13, Luke 8, and John 12. In either case, he is not referring to another god.

Paul also said in 1 Corinthians 8:4-6 "Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one.

or even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him."

What Paul is clearly stating while others may believe in other gods in heaven (such as the Greek gods) or on earth (such as the Roman emperor, or idols), he is in no way saying that there are more gods than the One True God.

This idea of false gods is clearly shown in the First Commandment (Exodus 20:3-6), when God says: "You shall have no other gods before Me.

You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.

You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments." Does that mean that God believes in other Gods? No. He is saying not to follow the false gods of man. Paul is saying what God says in the first commandment.

John, likewise believes in only one God, so when he says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.", that the Son was co-existent with God the Father, as is God the Son. John further expounds this point (John 1:18), "No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him."

Jesus proclaims in Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill." Does He fulfill the Law if He takes praise from Thomas, as seen in John 20:28-19 when "Thomas answered and said to Him, 'My Lord and my God!'

Jesus said to him, 'Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.'", unless he is God. And if He is God, He is the One and Only God. But yet, He is God the Son.

The early church had the same questions that modern Man has: How can God be One in Three? The false answer is multiple Gods, but that violates the Old Testament teachings, and would make Jesus a liar. The simple answer is God is one in essence, three in person. And this is what the early church taught from the beginning, as show in the historical evidence provided previously.

464 posted on 04/21/2013 5:33:35 PM PDT by kosciusko51 (Enough of "Who is John Galt?" Who is Patrick Henry?)
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To: kosciusko51
“Do you really believe that Paul was a polytheist?”

I love questions like this one. It reminds me of someone all wide eyed asking me if it's really true I torture puppies and then they go on to explain how I should quit doing that.

You quote John which says, (John 1:18), “No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.”

How is it so many saw Jesus then? And none called him or referred to him as “God the Son”? “Son of God”? Yes, often but Jesus didn't call himself “God the Son”, his disciples didn't, God didn't, The Scriptures don't, so where does this “God the Son” business come from?Not from the Scriptures.

“And if He is God, He is the One and Only God. But yet, He is God the Son.”

I know of no trinitarian who says The Father is The Son! Where doe that definition come from?

The relationship between Jehovah and Jesus was father and son, Jesus even being called “only begotten god” (or God in some translations).

Thomas exclaims, “My Lord and My God”. Who does Paul identify as Lord? Who does he identify as God”?

In the very verse you referred to: 1 Cor. 8:6,

“But to us there is but one God, the Father, (ek) whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, (dia) whom are all things, and we (dia) him.”

The one God is the Father so was Thomas calling the resurrected Jesus “God the Father”? Besides Lord?

Paul identifies the Father as the one who originates (ek) all things and Jesus as the one through (dia) whom He does it.

Jesus certainly spoke of he and his Father being one in union along with his disciples but where then is this three persons, one “essence” whatever is meant by essence?

492 posted on 04/21/2013 9:28:06 PM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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