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To: count-your-change
In those three verses, Paul does indeed say, there are many gods and lords with the caveat that to Christians there was only God and only One Lord. Good! we are in agreement on that.

No, we are NOT in agreement on that! Did you miss the part where Paul says, "we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.” (I Cor. 8:4)? There may be people out there who believe in many gods, but that doesn't mean they exist and that was exactly what Paul was saying there. An idol represents a false god - one that does NOT exist because there is ONLY one God - the Almighty, the self-existent one, the I AM.

I am fully aware that many Hebrew names have the "el" as part of the name and ELOHIM was the name for the Almighty God. Such as:

There he built an altar, and he called the place El Bethel, because it was there that God revealed himself to him when he was fleeing from his brother. (Gen. 35:7)

And there he built an altar and named it El-Elohe-Israel (Gen. 33:20).

It is very often found in proper names, as Bethel, Daniel, Elijah, etc. Eloi, like Eli, means, My God. From Smith's Bible Dictionary:

    Throughout the Hebrew Scriptures two chief names are used for the one true divine Being--ELOHIM, commonly translated God in our version, and JEHOVAH, translated Lord . Elohim is the plural of Eloah (in Arabic Allah); it is often used in the short form EL (a word signifying strength , as in EL-SHADDAI, God Almighty, the name by which God was specially known to the patriarchs. (Genesis 17:1; 28:3; Exodus 6:3)

    The etymology is uncertain, but it is generally agreed that the primary idea is that of strength, power of effect , and that it properly describes God in that character in which he is exhibited to all men in his works, as the creator, sustainer and supreme governor of the world.

    Jehovah denotes specifically the one true God, whose people the Jews were, and who made them the guardians of his truth. The name is never applied to a false god, nor to any other being except one, the ANGEL-JEHOVAH who is thereby marked as one with God, and who appears again in the New Covenant as "God manifested in the flesh." Thus much is clear; but all else is beset with difficulties. At a time too early to be traced, the Jews abstained from pronouncing the name, for fear of its irreverent use. The custom is said to have been founded on a strained interpretation of (Leviticus 24:16) and the phrase there used, "THE NAME" (Shema), is substituted by the rabbis for the unutterable word. In reading the Scriptures they substituted for it the word ADONAI (Lord), from the translation of which by Kurios in the LXX., followed by the Vulgate, which uses Dominus , we have the LORD of our version. The substitution of the word Lord is most unhappy, for it in no way represents the meaning of the sacred name. The key to the meaning of the name is unquestionably given in God's revelation of himself to Moses by the phrase "I AM THAT I AM," (Exodus 3:14; 6:3) We must connect the name Jehovah with the Hebrew substantive verb to be , with the inference that it expresses the essential, eternal, unchangeable being of Jehovah. But more, it is not the expression only, or chiefly, of an absolute truth: it is a practical revelation of God, in his essential, unchangeable relation to this chosen people, the basis of his covenant.

From another dictionary, The American Tract Society Bible Dictionary:

    This name, the derivation of which is uncertain, we give to that eternal, infinite, perfect, and incomprehensible Being, the Creator of all things, who preserves and governs all by his almighty power and wisdom, and is the only proper object of worship. The proper Hebrew name for God is JEHOVAH, which signifies He is. But the Jews, from a feeling of reverence, avoid pronouncing this name, substituting for it, wherever it occurs in the sacred test, the word ADONAI, Lord; except in the expression, ADONAI JEHOVAH, Lord Jehovah, for which they put, ADONAI ELOHIM, Lord God. This usage, which is not without an element of superstition, is very ancient, dating its origin some centuries before Christ; but there is no good ground for assuming its existence in the days of the inspired Old Testament writers. The proper word for God is ELOHIM, which is plural in its form, being thus used to signify the manifold perfections of God, or, as some think, the Trinity in the godhead. In Exodus 3:14, God replies to Moses, when he asks Him His name, I AM THAT I AM; which means either, I am he who I am, or, I am what I am. In either case the expression implies the eternal self-existence of Jehovah, and his incomprehensible nature. The name I AM means the same as JEHOVAH, the first person being used instead of the third.

    The Bible assumes and asserts the existence of God, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth;" and is itself the most illustrious proof of his existence, as well as our chief instructor as to his nature and will. It puts a voice into the mute lips of creation; and not only reveals God in his works, but illustrates his ways in providence, displays the glories of his character, his law, and his grace, and brings man into true and saving communion with him. It reveals him to us as a Spirit, the only being from everlasting and to everlasting by nature, underived, infinite, perfect, and unchangeable in power, wisdom, omniscience, omnipresence, justice, holiness, truth, goodness, and mercy. He is but one God, and yet exists in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; and this distinction of the Three in One is, like his other attributes, from everlasting. He is the source, owner, and ruler of all beings, foreknows and predetermines all events, and is the eternal judge and arbiter of the destiny of all. True religion has its foundation in the right knowledge of God, and consists in supremely loving and faithfully obeying him.

“Why would that even be included in Scripture if Jesus was a created being who had this one assignment?”

Your premise is in error. Neither verse calls God “incarnate” and Jesus stated through out the Gospels what his assignment was on earth and would be in heaven.

My "premise" was that the announcement to Mary by the Angel Gabriel was, "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." (Luke 1:35).

In Matthew 1:18-23, "Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit. And her husband Joseph, being a just man and unwilling to put her to shame, resolved to divorce her quietly. But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet:

The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means "God with us")."

It is a fulfillment of the prophecy in Isaiah 7:14. God, Himself would give a sign that by a miraculous birth, virgin bearing a child - with no human biological father - and his name will mean God with us and God who saves us.

I believe that “believing on Christ” for salvation proves His deity. If He was a created or finite being, to teach eternal salvation by believing on Him is blasphemy. Because only God can bring eternal life by belief in Himself - remember that verse in Isaiah 43 where Jehovah says besides Him there is NO Savior. To experience new life by believing proves that Jesus was God manifest in the flesh.

What is your belief about how someone can be saved?

458 posted on 04/20/2013 10:55:55 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums
If a god is not THE true God it has no actual or real existence...Does that get to the heart of it?
If so, good. Note,
Paul wrote in 2 Cor. 4:4 about “the god of this world” and at 1 Cor. 10:20 that what the pagans sacrificed they sacrificed to demons, so the ones behind these false gods are real enough.
Earlier you wrote, “It was translated as “God, His own Son having sent in the likeness of sinful flesh” (Romans 8:3) and “God with us” (Matt. 1:23), the incarnation was in a human nature without any of its corruptions”.
I'm not clear now on what you understand these verses to mean. Was it God being sent in the likeness of flesh or His Son? and did being referred to by the name Emmanuel mean Jesus was God?

“What is your belief about how someone can be saved?”

Since your last post raised some questions could follow up on those a bit before moving on? Thanks.

459 posted on 04/21/2013 2:23:06 AM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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