Posted on 04/11/2013 6:40:37 AM PDT by Vermont Crank
CYRIL; Now one of the thieves uttered the same revilings as the Jews, but the other tried to check his words, while he confessed his own guilt, adding, We indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds.
CHRYS. Here the condemned performs the office of judge, and he begins to decide concerning truth who before Pilate confessed his crime only after many tortures. For the judgment of man from whom secret things are hid is of one kind; the judgment of God who searches the heart of another. And in the former case punishment follows after confession, but here confession is made to salvation. But he also pronounces Christ innocent, adding, But this man has done nothing wrong: as if to say, Behold a new injury, that innocence should be condemned with crime. We kill the living, He raised the dead. We have stolen from others, He bids us give up even what is our own.
The blessed thief thus taught those that stood by, uttering the words by which he rebuked the other. But when he saw that the ears of those who stood by were stopped up, he turns to Him who knows the hearts; for it follows, And he said to Jesus, Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom. You behold the Crucified, and you acknowledge Him to be your Lord. You see the form of a condemned criminal, and you proclaim the dignity of a king. Stained with a thousand crimes, you ask the Fountain of righteousness to remember your wickedness, saying, But I discover your hidden kingdom; and you turn away my public iniquities, and accept the faith of a secret intention. Wickedness usurped the disciple of truth, truth did not change the disciple of wickedness.
GREG. On the cross nails had fastened his hands and feet, and nothing remained free from torture, but his heart and tongue. By the inspiration of God, the thief offered to Him the whole which he found free, that as it is written, With the heart he might believe to righteousness, with the mouth he might confess to salvation. But the three virtues which the Apostle speaks of, the thief suddenly filled with grace both received and preserved on the cross. He had faith, for example, who believed that God would reign whom he saw dying equally with himself. He had hope who asked for an entrance into His kingdom. He preserved charity also zealously in his death, who for his iniquity reproved his brother and fellow-thief, dying for a like clime to his own.
AMBROSE; A most remarkable example is here given of seeking after conversion, seeing that pardon is so speedily granted to the thief. The Lord quickly pardons, because the thief is quickly converted. And grace is more abundant than prayer; for the Lord ever gives more than He is asked for. The thief asked that He should remember him, but our Lord answers, Verily I say to you, This day shall you be with me in Paradise. To be with Christ is life, and where Christ is, there is His kingdom.
THEOPHYL. And as every king who returns victorious carries in triumph the best of his spoils, so the Lord having despoiled the devil of a portion of his plunder, carries it with Him into Paradise.
CHRYS. Here then might one see the Savior between the thieves weighing in the scales of justice faith, and unbelief. The devil cast Adam out of Paradise. Christ brought the thief into Paradise before the whole world, before the Apostles. By a mere word and by faith alone he entered into Paradise, that no one after his sins might despair of entrance. Mark the rapid change, from the cross to heaven, from condemnation to Paradise, that you may know that the Lord did it all, not with regard to the thief's good intention, but His own mercy.
But if the reward of the good has already taken place, surely a resurrection will be superfluous. For if He introduced the thief into Paradise while his body remained in corruption without, it is clear there is no resurrection of the body. Such are the words of some, But shall the flesh which has partaken of the toil be deprived of the reward? Hear Paul speaking, Then must this corruptible put on incorruption. But if the Lord promised the kingdom of heaven, but introduced the thief into Paradise, He does not yet recompense him the reward. But they say, Under the name of Paradise He signified the kingdom of heaven, using a well-known name in addressing a thief who knew nothing of difficult teaching. Now some do not read it, This day shall you be with me in Paradise, but thus, I say to you on this day, and then follows, You shall be with me in Paradise. But we will add a still more obvious solution. For physicians when they see a man in a desperate state, say, He is already dead. So also the thief, since he no longer fears his falling back to perdition, is said to have entered Paradise.
THEOPHYL. This however is more true than all, that although they have not obtained all the promises, I mean, the thief and the other saints in order that without us they might not be made perfect, they are notwithstanding in the kingdom of heaven and Paradise.
GREG. NYSS. Here again, we must examine how the thief should be thought worthy of Paradise, seeing that a flaming sword prevents the entrance of the saints. But observe that the word of God describes it as turning about, so as it should obstruct the unworthy, but open a free entrance to life to the worthy.
GREG. Or that flaming sword is said to be turning, because that He knew the time would come when it must be removed; when He in truth should come, who by the mystery of His incarnation was to open to us the way of Paradise.
AMBROSE; But it must also be explained how the others, that is, Matthew and Mark, introduced two thieves reviling, while Luke, one reviling, the other resisting him. Perhaps this other at first reviled, but was suddenly converted. It may also have been spoken of one, but in the plural number; as in the Hebrews, They wandered in goat-skins, and they were sawn asunder; whereas Elijah alone is related to have had a goat-skin, and Isaiah to have been sawn asunder. But mystically, the two thieves represent the two sinful people who were to be crucified by baptism with Christ, whose disagreement likewise represents the difference of believers.
BEDE; For as many of us as were baptized in Christ Jesus, were baptized in His death; but we are washed; by baptism, seeing we were sinners. But some, in that they praise God suffering in the flesh, are crowned; others, in that they refuse to have the faith or works of baptism, are deprived of the gift which they have received.
Since you do you support the papal sanction of use of torture and capital punishment against theological dissidents as being Scriptural, and thus deny modern RC teaching (2298), or at least Scripture, why not straightforwardly answer my question as to whether you are a SSPX or sedevacantist Catholic?
It is too bad that you must rely on argument by assertion rather than answering my question as regards your basis for assurance.
I have already publicly stated that I maintain the oinds of Unity in Worship, Doctrine, and Authority and I am neither a sedevacantist or a semiprivationist nor am I a member of the SSPX .
Whichs Mormons did you have in mind?
The fake ones following SLC's edicts (LDS) or the TRUE ones following their GOD's? (Flds)
I do not. It was an observation. I do happen to believe the Thief on the Cross, who is named in the Catholic tradition, was saved by Christ and Him alone.
But thank you for the respectful discussion. I'm proud to stand alongside my Catholic brothers and sisters as we fight together for social issues that are important to us both. I don't happen to believe, though, that Salvation is open only to Catholics. If I did, I would be Catholic.
As always, peace be with you both.
The Catholics are very clear on the Mormons and their non-
Christian religion made to appear as Christian.
Funny in a Steve Martin sort of way, so allowable. Carry on.
Neither does the Catholic Church.
Peace be with you.
Please check your PM. Thanks!
Ditto
The word we use is "Credo". It does not simply mean to believe, it means to trust completely, even to or in spite of the cost of our lives. Too many place their trust only in their own capacity to know, understand and reason.
Peace be with you
By the way, where do you think the Bible came from, anyway?
No you really don't know more about the Scriptures than me. Not that I care, but really stay in your church please I beg you. One favor stop begging us to join yours. And by the way, the Scriptures did not come from the Roman Church or any other organization of man. 2/3rds of it was compiled before Jesus walked on the earth and the other 1/3rd was written several centuries before the Roman Church came into existence. Your beloved church did it's best to keep the Bible out of the hands of the people and will in the course of time have to account for that. Where in the Bible does it say anything about church people protecting the message of the Bible? Answer: it doesn't, instead it tells us to study it dilligently. You must have missed that part in your presby days. Have a nice day.
I lurked for all of 3 hours before I joined and started posting. Some of us just jump right in. Of course, there was no Official Freeper Lexicon back then. :)
Rather, i understand what Rome claims, and how RCs seek to avoid the problems with that. Here the question is not whether Rome supports Capital Punishment, but whether it advocates torture and Capital Punishment because of doctrinal dissent, as it did in the past .
As you do but current teaching is contrary to that, then it places you more in the camp of a Catholic sect.
Rather, it is a sinless, Jesus, who established His church in opposition to those who sat in the very seat of Moses, estabaslhed by God.
And it was a brave if imperfect reformer who opposed an entity which, like those who sat in the seat of Moses and opposed and crucified Christ, presumed a level of veracity above that which Scripture afforded them, and relied on the arm of flesh to deal with those who corrected them.
And as it was not by an assuredly infallible magisterium that the texts the Lord invoked were established as Scripture, and as God raised up men from without the formal magisterium to correct them and preserve truth, thus the church as the body of Christ has overcome as God did likewise.
I am finished with our exchange and I assure you I bear no ill will towards you.
Which is fitting in you situation.
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