I do not wish to misunderstand what you say, or, as they say, “put words in your mouth.” So is it your assertion that you see no material difference between the phrase “Separation of Church and State,” and the Constitutional phrase, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;”?
“This experiment has failed!”
I take it that by this, you refer to what has widely been termed “The Great American Experiment.” Strangely enough it is 0bama that would agree with you on this assertion. And we must assume Clinton and Carter as well, although I am not aware of a statement declaring so from either of these worthies as categorical as 0bama’s flat statement in his Osawatomie, Kansas speech of 7 December (of all days) 2011, that the “Great American Experiment” of free markets has never worked. Jefferson, or none of the others I mentioned (Adams, Washington, Franklin, Coolidge, even Paine, or many another) would agree with 0bama, but apparently you do. It’s true that 0bama has simply declared that this government deriving its just powers from the consent of the governed has never worked ~ he has not called it a “Protestant botch.” But then, I can’t say that you have either (see Is America Just a Protestant Botch?, Crisis Magazine, or a discussion is to be found in Free Republic), 12/16/2011).
We are all familiar with the “failures” of the government our Founding Fathers put in place (God knows, they have been discussed enough), both real and fabricated. Likewise, we are also familiar with the manifold failures of various Socialist governmental systems or of various Theocracies that now exist or have in the past existed.
“The only moral truths that can’t be changed exist in Catholic/Orthodox churches - The Church Fathers are the real hero’s to be looked up to for a better society . . . ”
Fine. I’ve not before enjoyed a discussion with you, but I’ve had the privilege of perusing very interesting and valuable conversations between you and boop, so I know that you are a serious-minded Poster, interested in pursuing only matters of importance. But, I asked you a question (see #38, this thread), can you “advance and defend an alternative?”
I’m waiting.
Dear Friend, Te point I was making is there are people of extremes on both american liberalism and american conservationism who look up to political figures as almost messianic figures in a historical fashion and a modern fashion.
I was not saying you are one of these people, but these people with these views have, and have had influence society.
There are 2 very important people that had influence in early american culture in a very negative way, I would go a far to say these 2 people were demonic.
The first was vile anti Catholic called Voltaire out of the Enlightenment, the second was John Calvin from the reformation with his horrific idea of total depravity- that actually lead more people into atheism that is immeasurable even to this day.
Many of the ff’s of this country were brought up through this influence, so I actually don’t believe they are as much at fault , the influence of Voltaire and Calvin had began the great rot of society by there true liberal
philosophy that they carried into a false version of Christianity that was never historical in REAL Christian beliefs
A real Christian Democracy would be attached to the Dogmatic Morals of the Catholic/Orthodox Church.
This Democracy we have has had the gates of hell prevail against it because of liberal pluralism with no set teachings on morality
You said..” can you “advance and defend an alternative?”
Easily. A true Christian democracy would look to the Natural law that is built up and defined in the Catholic /Orthodox Church and the state would never be allowed to separate themselves from those DEFINED teachings on Morals.
Gay Marriage , pornography etc.. would be crushed to never gain any ground because they would be crushed by the state grounded in true morality that is unchangeable