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Thank you, Pope Francis! / Have we entered an age of a new gnosticism?
Fr. Z's blog ^ | 3/30/2013 | Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Posted on 03/30/2013 11:39:36 AM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM

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The Pope, The Law, And Me

Creative Minority Report

Posted by Patrick Archbold

Much discussed these last days, the Pope violated the rubrics surrounding the washing of feet.

Also much discussed, the Pope has rejected tradition in multiple other very visible ways.

Also, widely reported is the Pope's commentary that the Church should not be inwardly focused.

It is not my intent here to discuss whether the Pope is right or wrong, authorized or not, to do what he has done. Father Z and Ed Peters do an excellent job of summing this up and I recommend you read it. My concern now is elsewhere.

The Pope's disregard for established law and rubrics coupled with his statements has an effect and I am afraid it is not all good.

I fear that the Pope is inadvertently setting people in the Church against each other.

This is how the Pope's actions are now being framed in the popular mindset:

If you think that law and rubrics are there for a reason, the reason being the order and good of the Church and the faithful, and you are troubled about the violations then you are part of the problem. You are one of the inwardly focused people that the Pope is trying wrest the Church back from. If you think that law, rubrics, and tradition matter, you are the other--you are the problem. You are not humble and simple like the Pope. You are the past.

If, on the other hand, law, rubrics, and majesty in the worship of God have never been your thing, then life is good. The Pope, by example if not by word, is validating your worldview. You have never really cared about such things and have often violated them. The Pope has just shown that, as you always suspected, these things don't really matter, that things like law, rubrics, and majesty hinder evangelization and are simply the products of an inwardly focused Church. You are part of future Church.

But this unfortunately sets the good of the Church against itself, truly a house divided. This division makes its way down to the people. Look how quickly that happened forty years ago.

Is it alright, in the name of simplicity, for a Catholic not to go to Church on Sunday as long as he keeps the day holy in some way? Why not?

If you think that abstaining from meat on Fridays is silly and anachronistic and a sign of an inwardly focused Church, can you dispense with it if you abstain from something with more meaning to you? Why not?

Which laws, rubrics, and traditions still matter? Which are still binding?

But see, if you even ask the question, then you are part of the problem and part of the past.

I don't believe that this is the intent of the Holy Father, but to some degree it is already the result. If Pope Francis continues to show disregard for law, rubrics, and tradition, I fear this dreadful result.

There are many things the Pope can change, law and rubrics among them. If the Pope wishes to change them, he should do so properly. For one thing the Pope cannot change is human nature. Disregard for the law breeds only more disregard for the law.


[Note. I love the Pope and want him to succeed. I think renewed focus on the poor is wonderful and I support it wholeheartedly. But I do not accept, as some would have you believe, that law, rubrics, and tradition must be thrown overboard to achieve this renewed focus on the poor. I don't think the Pope supports this either, but I fear some of his actions give encouragement to those who do.]

*subhead*The wrong way.*subhead*

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1 posted on 03/30/2013 11:39:36 AM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

This debate is raging everywhere in the Catholic online community. There’s no point ignoring the elephant in the middle of the room when popular commentators such as Fr. Z are even expressing grave concerns.


2 posted on 03/30/2013 11:40:59 AM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
The foot washing rite is actually optional, though that fact is little grasped by liberals who impose the options they like as obligatory on those who would prefer to opt out. Liturgical law prescribes that only men (viri in Latin) can be chosen for that rite.

That which is not forbidden is mandatory.

3 posted on 03/30/2013 11:44:16 AM PDT by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed &water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Dear Dr. Brian Kopp,

I must confess that I haven't been paying much attention to all this. For the sake of the willfully ignorant (me), could you briefly describe just what Pope Francis did with the washing of the feet that violated the rubrics, other than washing the feet of women?

Were these all done in the context of the Holy Thursday Mass, or were there events that weren't precisely liturgical where he washed some feet?

Thanks,


sitetest

4 posted on 03/30/2013 12:03:57 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: sitetest
PFI celebrated Holy Thursday Mass at a juvenile prison in Rome. At that Mass, during the washing of the feet (the Mandatum rite, a formal part of the Novus Ordo Holy Thursday Mass) he washed the feet of eight boys and two girls. One of the two girls was Muslim. In years past, the Vatican has clarified that ONLY men are to be included in the washing of the feet, because the Holy Thursday Mass is about the institution of the (all male) priesthood and the Holy Eucharist. Therefore, since the Holy Father failed to formally change the law prior to this Mass, objectively he committed a liturgical abuse.

This has set the trad world on fire: Pope's foot-wash a final straw for traditionalists

I attend the Novus Ordo mass daily. I attend the TLM almost every Sunday. Honestly, I attend the latter on Sundays not so much because I love the TLM, but because I hate liturgical abuses, and there are none at the TLM.

I don't know what to make of all this.

I can easily disregard the pompous sneering of the crowds at the RorateCaeli blog, but I cannot easily dismiss it when Fr. Z is voicing grave reservations.

5 posted on 03/30/2013 12:17:28 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: sitetest

Oops, ten boys and two girls, not 8 and 2.


6 posted on 03/30/2013 12:18:31 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp; MinuteGal

This was the question asked me:

“Doesn’t Gods Spirit transcend racial, national and geographical boundaries? I think you place God in a small box of your own construct to make a statement like that.”

To which I responded and was excoriated for by certain Freepers:

“Well, what percentage of Africa is Roman Catholic? Where are the bulk of Catholics to this day? It’s in the Western culture, because that is where it primarily started. If you pick a Latin American or African Pope, you are going to get lots of social justice philosophy mixed in, just wait and see. I don’t want to chance it. I want a conservative Western Pope. He can then minister to the whole wide world, including Africa and Latin America and the Orient, but I want the Pope to be a Westerner.

And I’m sick to death of political correctness (or in this case, spiritual correctness). Some of you can continue to try to guilt trip me with your PC ecumenical, globalist philosophy by ceding a western church and its spiritual culture to other foreign lands for the Head of the Church, but you won’t succeed. And I’ll bet a Pope’s chalice that there are a bunch of readers on this thread that agree with me 100 percent, many of whom may be afraid to admit it though. So sad that it has come to this.”

It looks like I’m being proven right in my first assessment, in particular re the Latin American propensity towards “social justice”. I’m starting to get very bad vibes here. There is such a thing as the ostentatious display of how much one emphasizes ministering to the poor to the exclusion of other aspects of the faith that are also important. And the decorum and majesty of the Church being minimized. I want Pope Benedict XVI back. He realized the mistakes of Vatican II that he had a hand in, and was trying mightily to backtrack on a lot of what came out of it. I’m afraid Pope Francis will not do the same. No emphasis on the Latin Mass is my guess. Oh dear, I so much wanted a traditionalist, and methinks Pope Francis may not fit that mode well at all.


7 posted on 03/30/2013 12:19:34 PM PDT by flaglady47 (When the gov't fears the people, liberty; When the people fear the gov't, tyranny.)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp; fellowpatriot; MarineMom613; Ron C.; wolfman23601; ColdOne; navymom1; Pat4ever; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

8 posted on 03/30/2013 12:21:55 PM PDT by narses
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To: flaglady47
Trads were hoping for and expecting the Angelic Pope of Catholic prophecy, who would set the Church right and restore what was lost. Instead they fear we got an "anti-Pope" who will continue the auto-destruction started by Paul VI (and briefly opposed by BXVI). And from the current vantage point, its too early to tell if PFI is a true saint in the mold of St. Francis, or just another "Spirit of VII" prelate who doesn't give a damn about restoring what was lost since VII.

I'm a PFI agnostic. I choose to watch and pray. He could turn out to be either and I'm still willing to be pleasantly surprised despite my initial mixed gut impressions. Chances are he's just another Pope, one that will fall squarely between the hopes and fears.

9 posted on 03/30/2013 12:34:57 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Much discussed these last days, the Pope violated the rubrics surrounding the washing of feet. Also much discussed, the Pope has rejected tradition in multiple other very visible ways.

Maybe we really are in the end times but the opposite of what many people think. Maybe the Pope is giving us all (Catholics, Protestants, and Anglicans) one final example of humility and Christ-like action versus holding on to old tradition and obsessing if he uses the right mass or genuflects correctly. Will all of us as a universal Christian church humble ourselves or will we grasp on to tradition?

10 posted on 03/30/2013 12:36:21 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: sitetest

I’m with you, sitetest. I’d love 3 sentence overviews: 1) this happened 2) Father Z is upset because 3) On the other hand — just to get an overview to hang the details on.


11 posted on 03/30/2013 12:42:49 PM PDT by bboop (does not suffer fools gladly)
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To: bboop; sitetest
Vatican Spokesman on Participation of 2 Women in Foot Washing Ceremony

Excerpt:

" That the Holy Father, Francis, washed the feet of young men and women on his first Holy Thursday as Pope, should call our minds and hearts to the simple and spontaneous gesture of love, affection, forgiveness and mercy of the Bishop of Rome, more than to legalistic, liturgical or canonical discussions."

Now any lay Catholic who requests priests follow the rubrics of the Mass, instead of some nebulous "Spirit of VII," will just be told, "Hey, I'm just being humble. You know, like Pope Francis. Stop being a Pharisee."

That was not PFI's intention. I do believe his motives were pure and his heart was in the right place. But that will be the effect of this nonetheless.

12 posted on 03/30/2013 12:51:18 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM ("Hey, I'm just being humble. You know, like Pope Francis. Stop being a Pharisee.")
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp; NYer

I saw this yesterday, but figured either you or NYer woud post it.


13 posted on 03/30/2013 12:54:01 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Yes, I see. And you are right. I read more.


14 posted on 03/30/2013 12:55:02 PM PDT by bboop (does not suffer fools gladly)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Every good rule admits of exception. Do we ignore where these kids were, or that the girls were as much,i> there</i> and for the same reason as the boys? Or, for the sake of argument, forget that the very first person to Know the Lord in the flesh was a woman, and the first person to see the resurrected Lord was another woman, both named Mary? Feminists, who paradoxically disregard the Mother and try to exault the follower by making her a camp follower, or maybe wife of Jesus, miss the mark, because they are interested in POWER—power above all, so that service—which is what we ought to be about— falls into the shadows. The pope seems to be telling us: Hey, we ought not to be caught up in the power games. Not power over people, not power over nature. And what is disgusting about liberalism is —yes it ignores law, it ignore the right order of things—but for it, it is foolishness. We cannot be taking thought increase our height by an inch. Even by going to the moon, that is less than an inch measured against the Milky Way, whichis itself an inched measured against creation.


15 posted on 03/30/2013 12:57:37 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
There are many things the Pope can change, law and rubrics among them. If the Pope wishes to change them, he should do so properly. For one thing the Pope cannot change is human nature. Disregard for the law breeds only more disregard for the law.

Yes, this sums up exactly my concern with what he did. You just know there are people out there who now think they can disregard any of the laws of the Church because Francis did it. "So what? He did it, why can't I?"

The result is going to be chaos.

16 posted on 03/30/2013 1:21:38 PM PDT by BlessedBeGod
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To: RobbyS

“Every good rule admits of exception.”

Really, now? What exceptions do you hold to each of the Ten Commandments? I am most interested in your exception to the 7th Commandment.


17 posted on 03/30/2013 1:35:10 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: BlessedBeGod

As a non-catholic I don’t understand. Would someone in simple english explain what all the hubbubs about?


18 posted on 03/30/2013 1:35:29 PM PDT by Mmogamer (I refudiate the lamestream media, leftists and their prevaricutions.)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
[moot - "doubtful, theoretical, meaningless, debatable"]

Declaring Moslems to be "brothers and sisters" renders the whole Catholic Church moot. What part of "I am the Lord your God, and before me thou shalt have no other gods" does Francis not get.

19 posted on 03/30/2013 1:36:37 PM PDT by Excellence (9/11 was an act of faith.)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Surely Pope Francis knew he was violating church rubrics when he did it. I hardly see this as a naive error.


20 posted on 03/30/2013 1:40:31 PM PDT by polkajello
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