“”Prevenient” grace is not the same thing as “common” grace. “Prevenient” comes from the Latin meaning “coming before”. It is the grace which precedes justification.”
Unfortunately, going through so many different versions of the Catholic conception of “grace” is irrelevant to what the scriptures teach, which are much simpler.
Catholics do not believe that salvation is by grace alone, and therefore argue that their salvation hinges on their obedience to Rome and their own good works. (They even believe that baptism confers “grace,” giving them the ability to believe, which is an act of man and not of God alone.) This is, in other words, a choice they are making, on whether or not they wish to be justified by God, albeit, they claim they do so in cooperation with God. But if it is not all of grace, then it must be all of man. There is no middle-ground where the grace of God is insufficient to save a man.
Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Whenever God intends to give His grace to a man, it is described as a complete work.
Rom 8:29-30 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (30) Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Notice the order of the words. Those whom He predestinates, are to be conformed to the image of His Son. It is not, those who, working with God, and are baptized, conform themselves to His Son and are then predestinated. It is the exact opposite.
Then he says, those whom God predestinates, He calls, and those He calls He justifies, and those He justifies He glorifies. No where is anyone receiving a call, and then answering it of his own free-will, and then being predestinated as a result.
Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Again, they believed because they were ordained. They did not get “ordained” because they believed.
There is also no failure here in God’s determination to have His elect.
Those whom God draws, come to Jesus without fail:
Joh_6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
No one can take them out of His hand:
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
Not even in the heights of delusion by false-Christs working with devils, they cannot be lost.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
If it were possible means that it is not possible, though if salvation hinged on the man, it is always possible.
It is impossible, however, for someone to come to Christ or remain in Him who has not been drawn by the Father.
Joh 10:26-27 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. (27) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
They do not believe because they are not His sheep. It is not, they do not believe, and therefore God shall not let them become His sheep.
It happens again here, in response to the Jews murmering in disbelief of Christ’s sayings.
Joh 6:42-44 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven? (43) Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. (44) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
He repeats the fact that they do not believe BECAUSE they were not drawn by the Father:
Joh 6:64-65 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. (65) And he said, THEREFORE said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Salvation, then, is the complete work of God, who has mercy on whom He will have mercy, so that it is not him that runneth, or him that willeth, but on God who shows mercy.
Rom 9:14-25 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. (15) For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. (16) So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. (17) For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. (18) Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. (19) Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? (20) Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? (21) Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? (22) What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: (23) And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, (24) Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? (25) As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
Eph 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
All the Roman notions of grace and salvation, therefore, have no basis in the scripture.
Catholics do not believe that salvation is by grace alone,
Wrong.
and therefore argue that their salvation hinges on their obedience to Rome and their own good works.
Grossly oversimplified. But, yes, we do believe that James 2 and Matthew 25 are Scripture, and we do take them seriously, rather than trying to pretend they don't apply to us.
(They even believe that baptism confers “grace,”
Paul said that everyone who is baptized into Christ has put on Christ. Sounds like grace to me.
giving them the ability to believe, which is an act of man and not of God alone.)
Trent is crystal clear that faith precedes baptism in adults. That's why they profess their faith before they are baptized; look at the liturgy sometime. Duh! Do I really need to post quotes from magisterial documents declaring that faith is a gift of God??
Both you and Dutchboy hate a caricature you've been taught to hate, and have no understanding of the reality.
Begging your pardon, I must object to the inclusion and use of the words "all" and "no" in the above statement.
To put it another way...it is in my opinion, overstating the case, thus not all that helpful overall.
Otherwise, you can be precise enough at times and places, more generally, by which I mean since you've been contributing here. I thank you for that.