Posted on 03/26/2013 6:56:09 AM PDT by NYer
Last week, Pope Francis received a collection of world religious leaders in his first ecumenical and interreligious event. His address to them contained diplomatic niceties and specific expressions of good will aimed at Orthodox, Protestants, Jews, and Muslims.
His remarks to the latter recognized that Muslims “worship the one living and merciful God, and call upon him in prayer.” In this he echoed the 1964 dogmatic constitution Lumen Gentium, which gave a nod to “the Mohammedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.”
Now, both Lumen Gentium 16 and Pope Francis’s words have a pastoral rather than doctrinal purpose. Their aim is to build interreligious bridges by generously acknowledging whatever can be found to be true in other faiths—not to make precise pronouncements about their theology. That said, Lumen Gentium is an exercise of the ordinary Magisterium, and even casual statements from a pope (be it this one from Francis or similar ones made by his predecessors) shouldn’t be taken lightly.
So, what does it mean to say that Muslims adore the one God along with us—to say, as can be reasonably drawn from these statements, that Muslims worship the same God as Catholics? We can consider the idea in several senses.
I think we can say with confidence that any monotheist who calls out to the Lord is heard by the Lord, whether it’s a Muslim, a pagan philosopher seeking the God of reason, or a Native American petitioning the Great Spirit. As Lumen Gentium 16 continues, God is not “far distant from those who in shadows and images seek [him].”
Likewise I think we’re on solid ground in saying that the subjective intention of Muslims is to worship the one God—moreover, the one God from the line of Abrahamic revelation. Whether or not their version of that revelation is authentic or correct, that’s what they “profess to hold” to. Furthermore, some of the attributes of the God to whom they address their worship are comparable to the Christian God’s: He is one, merciful, omnipotent, and the judge of the world.
Just as clearly, though, we cannot say that the God in whom Muslims profess to believe is theologically identical to the Christian God. For the most obvious example, their God is a “lonely God,” as Chesterton put it, whereas ours is a Trinity of persons. Beyond that difference, in the divine economy our Gods are also quite different: most pointedly in that ours took human nature to himself and dwelt among us on earth, whereas the Muslim God remains pure transcendence. To Muslims the idea of an incarnation is blasphemy.
And so perhaps we can distinguish between worship of God and belief in him, the former being more about the intent of the worshiper and the latter being more about the object of belief himself. Thus could Gerhard Müller, bishop emeritus of Regensburg and since last year the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, assert in 2007 that Muslims and Christians “do not believe in the same God,” and yet not contradict any magisterial teaching.
Of course, Jews believe in an utterly transcendent and “lonely” God, too; the idea that Jesus was God’s son, Yahweh incarnate, was likewise blasphemous to the Jews of his day. Is their theology as deficient as Islam’s? Ought we to put them in the same category as Muslims: subjectively worshiping the one God but believing in him, as least partly, in error?
Well, at least one difference suggests itself. Muslims “profess” to hold to the faith of Abraham but really don’t; their version of Abrahamic faith is false. (Of course, they believe that our version is the false one, a corruption of the Qur’an.) Jews, on the other hand, know and believe in their God according to his authentic self-revelation—what they have received from him is true, just incomplete. To be fully true, Jewish theology just needs to be perfected by Christian revelation, whereas, although we can identify many truths in it, Islamic theology needs to be broken down, corrected, rebuilt from an authentic foundation.
Now, it can be a bad practice to judge ideas by their sources. But if, as Benedict XVI has said, faith is at root a personal encounter with God, then the authenticity of God’s personal revelation of himself is of the utmost importance. In other words, the source of God-knowledge becomes the very question. We worship and believe in God because and to the extent that we know him. And we know him, above all other reasons, according to how he revealed himself to us.
In this sense, then, I suggest that we can correctly say that Jews worship and believe in a God who is qualitatively truer, closer to the God of Christianity, than the God of Islam. Both Jews and Muslims lay claim to the same revelation, but where Jews have an accurate record of it (and thus of the God it reveals) Muslims have a fictionalized adaptation.
This question of the theological similarities and differences between Christianity and Islam is perhaps more important than it ever has been. With religious folk of all kinds increasingly beset by secularism and moral relativism, we look across creedal lines for friends and allies—comrades-in-arms in the fight for unborn life, traditional marriage and morality, religious rights, and a continued place for believers in the cultural conversation. It can be an encouragement and a temptation, then, to look at Islam and see not warriors of jihad against Arab Christians and a decadent West, but fellow-soldiers of an “ecumenical jihad” against an anti-theist culture.
Can Islam be that reliable ally? (Shameless product plug alert.) That’s the subject of the newest book from Catholic Answers Press: Not Peace but a Sword by Robert Spencer. The evidence he presents will help us understand Islam’s God more clearly, and make us examine more shrewdly the prospects for any future alliance with followers of the Prophet.
Thank you for taking time for that.
So if not for your love of God you would not feel guilt for anything you do?
Not a good source!
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron. (I Timothy 4:1,2)
Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. (Titus 1:5)
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. (Hebrews 10:22)
......”So I take it that any feelings of guilt that you have are entirely based on your fear of what God thinks?”
My response to that is:
.....”My relationship with God is NOT based on fear of Him, it's based on His love for me and I for Him....and this would also include any guilt feelings I might have.”
You then responded:
.....”So if not for your love of God you would not feel guilt for anything you do?”
To which I will say:
We all have a conscious...as Stuart expressed and I agree...But I will also add, that regardless if one believes in God or not, we are created/designed with this gift of conscious from God..... Therefore, a sense of guilt is ‘operational’ in us all....(keeping in mind we can also suppress our conscious, even to the point where it's no longer functional and there is no sense of guilt left apart from God restoring it.)
I would have to say though, that because of the relationship possible with God... one actually becomes more sensitive to our conscious as that relationship develops.......similar to other relationships developed.... ....We learn more about the person, become more intimately related, understand better, as well as sensitive to them........
....and because God is knowable, and desires we know Him, the more He draws us to Himself the more we become sensitive to Him...Thus when one senses 'guilt' in that relationship it's not only much more apparent, but one desires to keep the relationship free of it as we communicate with God about it.
Just as we are sensitive when other close relationships have a 'kink' in them...or for that matter 'a great gulf'...so too with God.... We know, or at the very least question it's standing ,and find no contentment until the matter is settled. ...so again my relationship with God is not based on fear...but 'entirely' based on His love for me ...far more I would add, then mine for Him....For His love for me is perfect....and therefore there is no fear in perfect love. And that love is available to ALL who seek to know Him up close and personal.
Ok I very rarely get offende.
Good enough for, but obviously not for you.
“well if you feel guilty, and as you said you don’t think God has concern about our sin, then why would you feel guilty at all, and what do you do about that guilt?”
That was your question to Stuart. It is pretty obvious from the thread that he thinks differently about God than you, but that doesn’t mean he can not feel guilty for his mistakes due to his conscience. The implication of your question was that one cannot feel guilt unless they have the same belief in God as you, but maybe that was not intended . Only he could tell you what he does about guilt, but I am pretty sure he has a way of dealing with it.
I agree that we are all gifted from God with a conscience and many suppress it, but there are other ways of restoring it than depending on God. I understand that is your belief and I fully support you right to believe it, but keep in mind that others have different beliefs and can make just as moral decisions based on what they believe.
I do not deal with guilt at all, consciously at least, because by the time one feels guilty about something, it’s in the past and there’s nothing that can be done about it.
When I do something that makes me feel guilty, it’s just dealt with automatically/subconsciously...if it’s of any significance, then I just probably won’t do it again.
...the determination of the level of significance is fluid though. That’s just something I had built into me when God gave me life. I don’t worry about future moral decisions because it’s all in God’s hands and the path He has set for me.
Maybe instead of fluid, I should say...it’s relative!!!
You said...”When I do something that makes me feel guilty, it’s just dealt with automatically/subconsciously”....
How so?.... That could mean almost anything...including denial of the offense....if that’s what you mean by being fluid.
Sounds like you simply move ahead and let the chips fall where they may.
Pretty much. Like I said, by the time there is guilt, it’s in the past.
.....”by the time there is guilt, it’s in the past”....
No warning before hand you might be going the wrong direction?...Just saying this because you did say we have a conscious which you lean on for direction. I would imagine then you’d know beforehand...
So what you’re saying is, if you go forward with something that’s wrong THEN you feel guilty after..but you let it slide because it’s past, unless it’s significant to you...and if so you simply try not to do it again.
How about if it affects other people?..which wrong stuff we do always affects others in one way or another.
Of course thats mot what im saying, thats what you are wanting to hear.
There has to be a desire to do something which would result in guilt...this is extremely rare in my case.
Does everything you do require a conscious effort? Don’t you have any intuitive capabilities?
I don’t do things to/with people, that would result in guilt.
Ok
Succinct. Nicely done.
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