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To: daniel1212

Jesus doesn’t soften his statement in John 6:53, He is very clear in response to the discussion detailed in John 6:52.

Furthermore, every serious Christian believed this for 1500+ years, until Luther decided that scandals & corruption in the church empowered him to toss aside a vow of celibacy and somehow gave him license to remove books from the Bible and personally interpret scripture.

It’s logically laughable in the face of history. Especially when one considers a new denomination has sprouted up on average every week or so since.


82 posted on 03/16/2013 7:08:16 PM PDT by rwilson99 (Please tell me how the words "shall not perish and have everlasting life" would NOT apply to Mary.)
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To: rwilson99; daniel1212
Jesus doesn’t soften his statement in John 6:53, He is very clear in response to the discussion detailed in John 6:52. Furthermore, every serious Christian believed this for 1500+ years, until Luther decided that scandals & corruption in the church empowered him to toss aside a vow of celibacy and somehow gave him license to remove books from the Bible and personally interpret scripture. It’s logically laughable in the face of history. Especially when one considers a new denomination has sprouted up on average every week or so since.

Sorry, but what is logically laughable is the pitiful LACK of knowledge of history! Let me explain:

The idea of the literal change of the bread and wine of the Lord's Supper into the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ (transubstantiation) by which those who received the elements were infused with a measure of grace towards the attainment of their salvation was one that developed over hundreds of years. Many of the early church fathers viewed the spiritual component of what those elements represented and participating in the ordinance was a testimony of professed faith. Most of the writings from those first centuries dealt with disputing the Gnostic belief that Jesus didn't HAVE a literal body. It should be obvious that, even at the Last Supper, that Jesus was speaking symbolically as he held up the bread, broke it and handed it out as well as the shared cup of wine. The bread and wine did NOT change physically, but remained the same as they started. Any change at all was figurative and symbolic. A look at the history of the Eucharist is found HERE.

I've been having to repeat this over many times here, but Luther DID NOT remove ANY books from the Bible. I really wish people would do a little research before they mouth the propaganda. Here's a good place to start: Luther and the Canon. Can we put this one untruth to bed once and for all?

As to what else Luther did and didn't do and his supposed motives, I'll leave that to God to judge as ONLY God sees a man's heart. I don't follow any man, I follow the Lord Jesus Christ and the truth HE ensured we would all know in sacred Scripture. Through the Holy Spirit, that truth gets illuminated to our hearts and minds.

87 posted on 03/16/2013 11:01:48 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: rwilson99; boatbums
Jesus doesn’t soften his statement in John 6:53, He is very clear in response to the discussion detailed in John 6:52.

So one can have no life in himself unless he physically consumes the Lord's literal flesh, otherwise he remains dead? Or is this open to interpretation?

Furthermore, every serious Christian believed this for 1500+ years, until Luther decided that scandals & corruption in the church empowered him to toss aside a vow of celibacy and somehow gave him license to remove books from the Bible and personally interpret scripture. It’s logically laughable in the face of history.

Your statement is not laughable in the face of history, but distressing, as you have manifested an ignorance of history, as dissent on the inclusion of apocryphal books or doubt of them continued among scholars remained for centuries, right into Trent. And thus Trent was the first infallible, indisputable decree on the entire Roman canon, occurring over 1400 years after the last book was penned. See here .

Moreover, titling bishops/elders "priests" in distinction to the priesthood of all believers is something the Holy Spirit never did in Scripture, as well as require celibacy of them (with rare exceptions).

Meanwhile, division exists and disagreements abound within Catholicism, and under its model for unity, that of the church being supreme and with assured veracity, versus Scriptural substantiation being the basis for establishment of truth, which Rome does not require.

92 posted on 03/17/2013 5:49:09 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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