Posted on 03/14/2013 10:44:57 AM PDT by Colofornian
Springtime seems to be the season when strange things happen – or controversial occurrences – happen in connection with temples within the church system of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons).
The chart at the end of this article highlights “15 occultic and controversial facts you may want to know about Lds temples.”
Thirteen of those 15 “Facts” relate to the Lds church history of its temples, and strangely the overwhelming “dates” associated with these occur in mid to late March and the months of April or May.
Why?
Perhaps it goes back to the original “pact” Joseph Smith made. He received a Masonic degree on March 16, 1842. And by May of 1842, he injected elements of the Freemasonry ceremony into the Lds temple rituals.
Temple Occultic Occurrences, Manifestations & Hauntings:
Even six years prior, on March 27, 1836 in Kirtland, Ohio – the location of the first Lds temple (and one abandoned by the Mormons prior to Smith implementing Baptisms for the dead)... strange visions were going on:
Temple dedications were often the scenes of such mysterious occurrences. Joseph Smith wrote of "many strange visions" that were seen when the first temple was dedicated at Kirkland, Ohio on 27 March 1836. It was noted that men would run about "under the influence," while others would "speak in a muttering, unnatural voice and their bodies [would] be distorted...." (Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons 1 April 1842, page 747) Smith wrote: "Soon after the Gospel was established in Kirtland...many false spirits were introduced, many strange visions were seen, and wild, enthusiastic notions were entertained; men ran out doors under the influence of this spirit, and some of them got upon the stumps of trees and shouted, and all kinds of extravagances were entered into by them; one man pursued a ball that he said he saw flying in the air, until he came to a precipice, when he jumped into the top of a tree, which saved his life; and many ridiculous things were entered into... (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 213-214)
What kinds of "ridiculous things?"
The records of early Mormonism are replete with accounts of activity from the spirit world. According to John Whitmer, who was the official Church Historian in Joseph Smith's time, some converts to the new religion would "act like an Indian in the act of scalping," or would "slide or scoot on the floor with the rapidity of a serpent...." During the ordination ceremony of Harvey Whitlock as a high priest in 1831, he was seen to have "turned as black as Lyman was white," his fingers "were set like claws," and, unable to speak, he went about the room with eyes "as the shape of oval Os...." On another occasion, one man, who weighed over 200 pounds, was thrown through the air by an unseen force, and another "began screaming like a panther...." 46. John Whitmer, John Whitmer's History (Salt Lake City, Utah: Modern Microfilm Company, n.d.), Chapter Six.
Haunting also took place in the Manti, Utah temple in April 1877 and the Salt Lake City temple the Spring of 1893.
Lds "prophet" Wilford Woodruff claimed:
* "I have had many interviews with Brother Joseph until the last 15 or 20 years of my life; I have not see him for that length of time." Journal of Discourses, 21:317-318, October 10, 1880, cf. Journal of Discourses, 19:229
* And that The Declaration of Independence signers appeared to him in the St. George, Utah temple in the 1870s (see chart below).
* Similarly, Lds "apostle" Heber C. Kimball (one who manifested signs of demon possession as a Mormon missionary in the United Kingdom in 1837) said "Joseph Smith continued visiting myself and others up to a certain time, and then it stopped." -- Lds "apostle" Heber C. Kimball, Deseret Weekly News, 53:112, Temples of the Most High, 1896, p. 345
LDS Temple Ritual Changes
Even though EVERY small detail of a Mormon temple ritual is highlighted as being of great import, the Lds Church have made SEVERAL official changes to their temple rites (See Temple Ritual Changed...Again). What is significantly strange about that is that one official Lds church publication, Church Handbook of Instructions: Book 2 Priesthood and Auxiliary Leaders (1998) highlights how important those details are: The publication cites Lds “apostle” James Talmage that:“No jot, iota, or tittle of the temple rites is otherwise than uplifting and sanctifying. In EVERY DETAIL the endowment ceremony contributes to...” (and Talmage goes on to tout several aspects of that). [The original Talmage source cited is The House of the Lord, p. 84 of the 1976 edition, as cited by The Church Handbook of Instructions, Book 2, p. 261.]
The Lds church made significant changes in – yes, you guessed it – APRIL (1990):
“In 1982 The God Makers film reenacted some of the most occult elements in the [Lds temple] endowment. The later film, The Temple of the God Makers, went even deeper. Telling many of the scenes shown are the very ones now inexplicably missage. The changes include the elimination of the following: 1. The chanting of the words pay lay ale, which temple patrons were told came from the ancient 'Adamic language' and meant 'O God, hear the words of my mouth.' 2. A portion of the ceremony in which a Protestant preacher is portrayed as a hireling of Lucifer. He is paid to preach the gospel of salvation by the grace and omnipresence and omnipotence of God the Father to 'Adam and his prosperity.' 3. The penalty signs which portray the temple patron having their throat slit, their heart ripped out, or their belly torn open for revealing the secrets of the temple rite. 4. Women in the temple having to veil their faces in prayer. 5. Women in the temple swearing a covenant to obey their husbands as God. 6. The Masonic 'five points of fellowship' and the embrace with 'the Lord' through the veil in order to gain admittance to the Celestial Room and the presence of Heavenly Father. 7. The use of female veil workers at the veil, representing mother goddesses, to embrace the women temple patrons and bring them through to the Celestial Room.” (Ed Decker, Decker's Complete Handbook of Mormonism, p. 396, Harvest House, 1995).
The Lds Church Handbook of Instructions boast about special occultic knowledge gained in the secretive Lds temples: “...members receive important knowledge of 'things which have been kept hid from before the foundation of the world. (D&C 124:41)” The Church Handbook of Instructions, Book 2, p. 261. [For more on occultic features re: the Mormon temple, see #8 in the chart below]
Necro-baptizing
By far, most of the work done in the Lds temples comprises baptizing the dead – and sealings of marriages can be done for the dead as well. Controversy has repeatedly erupted since the Mormon Church's April 1995 agreement with Jews to stop baptizing Jews killed in the Holocaust. Anne Frank and other Jews, along with many historical figures, have been necro-baptized by the Church.
The end portion of the chart below covers controversial aspects of these necro-baptisms. One still yet to be controversial feature of Mormon theology is how it presents Mormons themselves as literal “saviors” – in competition with Jesus Christ Himself!
For more on that, See Are Mormon people LITERAL saviors of dead Jews, others? (The OTHER World Series: Vanity)Surprisingly NONE of the Mormon temple activity originates from the Book of Mormon. The Lds temple itself wasn't used for “necro” purposes until the 1840s. The first two Lds temples (Kirtland, Ohio and Nauvoo, IL) were abandoned by the Mormons.
| DATE & PLACE | LDS TEMPLE FACTOID | SOURCE LINKS |
| 1. OVERARCHING INTRO | What's involved with LDS temple rituals? | The Secret LDS Temple Ceremony [Mormonism/Anti-Christian] |
| HISTORY OF LDS TEMPLE FACTS | ||
| 2. May, 1842: Nauvoo, IL | Masonic influences in temple ceremony after Joseph Smith rec'd a Mason's degree March 16, 1842 | Masonic Influence in the Endowment Ceremony + Masonry/Temple + MASONRY & THE MORMON TEMPLE CEREMONY + Top 10 Mormon Problems (see #10) + Sandra Tanner on Mormon Temples |
| Temple Occultic Occurrences, Manifestations & Hauntings: | ||
| 3. March 27, 1836 Kirtland, Ohio Temple Lds abandoned in the 1830s | Strange visions Temple dedications were often the scenes of such mysterious occurrences. Joseph Smith wrote of "many strange visions" that were seen when the first temple was dedicated at Kirkland, Ohio on 27 March 1836. It was noted that men would run about "under the influence," while others would "speak in a muttering, unnatural voice and their bodies [would] be distorted...." (Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons 1 April 1842, page 747) Smith wrote: "Soon after the Gospel was established in Kirtland...many false spirits were introduced, many strange visions were seen, and wild, enthusiastic notions were entertained; men ran out doors under the influence of this spirit, and some of them got upon the stumps of trees and shouted, and all kinds of extravagances were entered into by them; one man pursued a ball that he said he saw flying in the air, until he came to a precipice, when he jumped into the top of a tree, which saved his life; and many ridiculous things were entered into... (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 213-214) What kinds of "ridiculous things?" The records of early Mormonism are replete with accounts of activity from the spirit world. According to John Whitmer, who was the official Church Historian in Joseph Smith's time, some converts to the new religion would "act like an Indian in the act of scalping," or would "slide or scoot on the floor with the rapidity of a serpent...." During the ordination ceremony of Harvey Whitlock as a high priest in 1831, he was seen to have "turned as black as Lyman was white," his fingers "were set like claws," and, unable to speak, he went about the room with eyes "as the shape of oval Os...." On another occasion, one man, who weighed over 200 pounds, was thrown through the air by an unseen force, and another "began screaming like a panther...." 46. John Whitmer, John Whitmer's History (Salt Lake City, Utah: Modern Microfilm Company, n.d.), Chapter Six. | GOD-MEN AND SPIRITUAL VEGETABLES: The Occult Worldview of Mormonism + GOD-MEN AND SPIRITUAL VEGETABLES: The Occult Worldview of Mormonism (original source) |
| 4. 1870s St. George, Utah Temple | The dead Founding Fathers appeared in the temple? Supposedly the spirits of the signers of the Declaration of Independence -- with George Washington -- appeared to Lds would-be “prophet” Wilford Woodruff. Is the temple haunted? Were these indeed ghosts of the signers? Could they have been demons in disguise as ghosts? Or was the one even contemporary Mormons appeal to as the "authoritative" voice of God on polygamy vs. monogamy perhaps given to wild religious fantasies? Furthermore, does the official Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints play down this occultic episode as being just a small event in the life of Woodruff? Or are the sources questionable? The answer to these last two questions is: Not at all.In fact anybody can go to Lds.org and find Lesson 39 of the Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Gospel Doctrine Teacher’s Manual, where they would see a lesson plan that actually plays it up and highlights Woodruff's claims...giving credence that contemporary Mormons buy into it! – (see The Hearts of the Children Shall Turn to Their Fathers) Within the lesson plan detailing the account, Mormon church curricula writers then have their teachers ask the question: What can we learn from these two stories? (Answers could include that those who are dead are anxious for us to perform ordinances for them and that we should be diligent in our efforts to redeem the dead.) So official Mormon church teachings actually present the account of such occultic ghostly/potentially demonic encounters as anecdotal evidence of baptizing dead spirits! Furthermore, BYU also includes the account as part of their curricula for incoming freshmen who have taken their "Religious Education Intro to LDS Family History (Genealogy)" course. (See next column for secondary source, which provides primary sources) | Lds Temple Haunted? Did Declaration of Independence signers appear as ghosts to leader? [Vanity] |
| 5. April 1877 Manti, Utah Temple | Mormon writer Joseph Heinerman described such things as personages of light, auras of light around some of the speakers, strange music, and other manifestations during the dedication of the Mormon temple in Manti, Utah. (See link next column + Greg Loren Durand 1995-2005 Crown Rights Book Company, citing Joseph Heinerman, Spirit World Manifestations: Accounts of Divine Aid in Genealogical and Temple Work and Other Assistance to Latter-day Saints (Salt Lake City, Utah: Joseph Lyon and Associates, 1986), pages 94-97. (If one says "Well, that was 133 years ago" note that these anecdotal ghost stories are ones BYU professors feel are worth including in their class student syllabus, in the 1960s, or 1970: Charles R. Woodbury noted during one of the "fast food" baptisms for the dead that Mormons were doing in Manti that day (300 of them), he noted the following: ...let us review a journal entry written by Charles R. Woodbury after he had “witnessed 300 baptisms one day” in the Manti Temple: As a name was called out for baptism, a voice said to me, “This person has had the Gospel taught them and is converted and is ready for baptism.” Another name would be called out, “This person’s never heard the Gospel yet.” Another name would be called, “This person’s heard the Gospel and is not converted.” I sat there in that condition and witnessed 300 baptisms. I knew everyone of them that had accepted it and those that didn’t…25 out of the 300 weren’t ready for it. They weren’t converted and ready for the work. The rest of them, the other 275 were prepared and rejoiced that their work was being done. This is the testimony that I have to show people that the departed spirits know and appreciate when their work is done in the Temple, so they can enjoy the blessings of the Gospel (Woodbury, 1970, p. 19). (For source, see second link in next column) | GOD-MEN AND SPIRITUAL VEGETABLES: The Occult Worldview of Mormonism + Religious Education C261 Intro to LDS Family History (Genealogy) p. 57 |
| 6. Spring 1893 Salt Lake City Temple opening |
Mormons claim that when they opened their temple in the Spring of 1893, "Some Latter-day Saints saw...past Presidents of the Church and other deceased Church leaders." (Our Heritage: A Brief History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1996, p. 1020 |
Official Lds church source: Our Heritage: A Brief History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints p. 116, 1996 |
| 7. Open House start date April 3, 1993 San Diego, CA Temple | Visitations by the dead: Prior to the dedication of the San Diego temple, local Mormon families were given a packet entitled Family Temple Preparation Material. Included in this written material were about seven pages devoted to "true stories" of temple patrons who were visited by the dead | They see dead people? |
| OTHER TEMPLE OCCULTIC COMPONENTS | ||
| 8. Other Occultic Elements | Temple oaths, secrets, secret tokens/passwords to heaven revealed + 'Is Lucifer the god of the Mormon temple?' In the temple ceremony up through April 1990, why did the Lds temple ritual have Lucifer answer prayers in the temple? (In a presentation of Adam praying 'Oh God hear the words of my mouth' three times Lucifer answers and promises to answer for the father Adam was praying unto) | Mitt Romney's Mormon Secrets [Temple oaths, secrets, secret tokens/passwords to heaven revealed] + Is Lucifer the god of the Mormon Temple? [The OTHER World Series] |
| 9. 1927 Salt Lake City, UT | Lds temple ceremony ritualistic changes ( Why change something 'direct from Mormon god?') included removing an oath of vengeance against the United States – an oath they were swearing to retain up thru the 3rd and 4th generations...meaning we are STILL in that time period of 3-4 generations removed from the mid-1920s | Temple Ritual Changed...Again + Only The Latest In A Long Line: Temple Ceremony Changes Through History + Why the need for secret death oaths in the LDS Temple Endowment Ceremony? [Secretive Mormon church] + Sandra Tanner on Mormon Temples + Top 10 Mormon Problems (see #10) |
| 10. April 1990 Salt Lake City, UT | More Lds temple ceremony ritualistic changes (Again, why change something 'direct from Mormon god?'): “In 1982 The God Makers film reenacted some of the most occult elements in the [Lds temple] endowment. The later film, The Temple of the God Makers, went even deeper. Telling many of the scenes shown are the very ones now inexplicably missage. The changes include the elimination of the following: 1. The chanting of the words pay lay ale, which temple patrons were told came from the ancient 'Adamic language' and meant 'O God, hear the words of my mouth.' 2. A portion of the ceremony in which a Protestant preacher is portrayed as a hireling of Lucifer. He is paid to preach the gospel of salvation by the grace and omnipresence and omnipotence of God the Father to 'Adam and his prosperity.' 3. The penalty signs which portray the temple patron having their throat slit, their heart ripped out, or their belly torn open for revealing the secrets of the temple rite. 4. Women in the temple having to veil their faces in prayer. 5. Women in the temple swearing a covenant to obey their husbands as God. 6. The Masonic 'five points of fellowship' and the embrace with 'the Lord' through the veil in order to gain admittance to the Celestial Room and the presence of Heavenly Father. 7. The use of female veil workers at the veil, representing mother goddesses, to embrace the women temple patrons and bring them through to the Celestial Room.” (Ed Decker, Decker's Complete Handbook of Mormonism, p. 396, Harvest House) | Temple Ritual Changed...Again + Only The Latest In A Long Line: Temple Ceremony Changes Through History + Why the temple ceremony was changed in 1990 - LDS-Mormon + Sandra Tanner on Mormon Temples + Top 10 Mormon Problems (see #10) |
| NECRO BAPTISMS | ||
| 11. April, 1995 | Lds Church covenants with Jews to stop Lds baptisms of Jewish Holocaust Victims – a covenant not kept | A Chronicle of the Mormon/Jewish Controversy: The Issue of The Mormon Baptisms of Jewish Holocaust Victims and Other Jewish Dead+ Anne Frank, a Mormon? + * Anne Frank has been posthumously baptized (Mormon) + Elie Wiesel calls for Romney’s help to end Mormons’ proxy baptisms of Jews |
| 12. Various Lds Temples | Who Knew They were 'Mormons'? A Look @ Controversial 'Who's Who' among the dead who the Mormons have 'baptized' | LDS Struggle to Keep Proxy Baptisms Appropriate + Here Are 10 Famous People Posthumously Baptized By Mormons [Business Insider] + Baptism for the Dead - People |
| 13. March 15, 2000: Jordan River Temple, South Jordan, UT | Lds temple seals deceased Roman Catholic priest to nun (Lds' controversial practice of 'sealing' the dead in marriage) | Mormons even marry the dead by proxy (Vanity: The OTHER World Series) + Newest Catholic saint baptized and 'sealed' to wife in LDS temple? + Hemings and Jefferson Together Forever? Troubling cases of Mormon “proxy sealing” + What is an LDS Church /Mormon temple marriage/sealing? |
| 14. All Lds Temples | Mormon theological claim that Mormons themselves are literal saviors of the dead | Are Mormon people LITERAL saviors of dead Jews, others? (The OTHER World Series: Vanity) |
| THEOLOGICAL WRAP-UP | ||
| 15. Is all this 'temple' stuff revealed in the Book of Mormon? | Does the BoM "enlighten" us about baptism for the dead or any temple rite or work? (No) Then what "lens" does it offer us? What about physical temples at all? (No) It doesn't tell us about ANY rituals done, nor does it offer us "additional" views about God or "the Mormon gods"...nor anything about the Aaronic priesthood, let alone anything "new"... nor does it tell us anything about baptism for the dead, let alone anything "new" about it...nor does the BoM tell us how to become a god, let alone anything "new" about it... nor does it tell us how to eternally progress unto godhood, let alone anything "new" about it... |
“many false spirits were introduced, many strange visions were seen, and wild, enthusiastic notions were entertained; men ran out doors under the influence of this spirit, and some of them got upon the stumps of trees and shouted, and all kinds of extravagances were entered into by them; one man pursued a ball that he said he saw flying in the air, until he came to a precipice, when he jumped into the top of a tree, which saved his life; and many ridiculous things were entered into...”
This sounds a bit like datura intoxication.
Mormonism corrupts the message and very nature of your Savior to the entire world. The LDS maybe the only exposure some initially get to Christ and the strange beliefs that are heretical could turn them away or worse take them into a world away from the Father. They also lie and distort many parts of Christian beliefs, your beliefs, beliefs you were called to defend..
As a Christian you know that “being good” is not the point.
Is it Christian to let good people waltz into the arms of Satan himself?
I would think that would truly be the most denigrating and evil, hateful thing a person to do personally to another. Pointing out the very false teachings and other heresies of Mormonism is the precise opposite of such actions...
I understand in this delicate age many do not have the stomach for spiritual warfare, it is a sign of the times and where we are as a society. But if one cannot join the fight, at least do not stand in the way while others take on the evils of this world, regardless of their nature.
No
Of course they don't play like that. They move goal post, wrap up things is long drawn out rhetoric then whine when caught that everyone is just a mean bigot.
its a quaint game, but can be fun to watch...
lets stop being the constant haters....we can't hate everyone...
You call shining the light on the mormon, cultic heresy "hate". Frankly, calling something hate is the first refuge of liberals and the LGBT community.
Thankfully, the APOSTLE PAUL, had no problems calling a heresy a heresy..."And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. 2 Corinthians 11:11-13
Nor did he care if others approved of his actions...
"On the contrary, we speak as men approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel. We are not trying to please men but God, who tests our hearts. You know we never used flattery, nor did we put on a mask to cover up greed--God is our witness. We were not looking for praise from men, not from you or anyone else. 1Th 2:4-6c
"Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ. Gal 1:10
Further, you have miscast exposing the teachings of mormonism with individual mormons. I suggest you go back to post 1 on this thread and reread. You will see you have made an error.
It was not a Christian who walked out of the woods in 1820 and claimed to have seen angel and apostles and Jesus, and said we better fall in line to HIS teachings because all churches were wrong and his was right and if we didn’t HE would stand in the doorway to Heaven and keep the non mormons out! HE threw down the gauntlet, Christians picked it up and ever since then Mormons have been crying that the Christians are mean to them even though it was Mormons who picked this fight! [Ruy Dias de Bivar]
#1: R.D. de Bivar is right...Lds picked the fight & labeled us ALL "apostates" ... said ALL of our creeds were an "abomination" before the Mormon gods ... and that ALL of our professing believers were "corrupt"...and then a LATER generation enshrined that as "scripture" & placed it in the Lds "Pearl of Great Price" under Joseph Smith - History (see vv. 18-21)
Tell me something? Are you creeds so wimpy they aren't worth defending when a group spends $million castigating on paper, on electronic websites, in media, in publications, in curricula, in made-up "scriptures," in missionary training???
#2 Jesus at one point said to the legalists of that hour: Matt. 15:9: But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Are you going to castigate Jesus as well with your "I fail to see what your purpose is in denigrating people of faith whose mode of worship differs from yours" line???
#3 The Lds church owns the Deseret News. This week they published a "15 facts you may want to know about Lds temples" piece. If that church can run a PR fluff about "facts"...it can stand the other side of its temples to be exposed.
I don't know about your Bible, but mine says: "Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them." (Apostle Paul, Ephesians 5:11)
The real Q is: Why have YOU as a professing Christian been hiding your light in exposing darkness?
(Or is it that when you get to heaven, you'll lecture me, Paul & Jesus in one fell swoop?)
“Yes, I am LDS and I guarantee that any information you get from Colofornian is the same objectivity that you’ll get about Jews from the Muslim Brotherhood.”
Nice of you to (apparenlty) confess that you believe Jews are liars. I disagree. Don’t let that stop you from posting any, any, any objective info here to back up your claims.
“Colofornian and her ilk of self-appointed Non-Denomination Inquisitors excell at smears, inuendo, and distortion.”
That is a sentence packed with ad hominem attack. It is not an actual logic or fact based counterpoint - of which I haven’t see you post yet. This is a personal attack that is not allowed on the Religion Forum, as you should know.
“I have been to various LDS temples many times through my life and it is a peaceful activity devoted to our ancestors in conformance with 1st Corinthians 15:29”
There are no Christian Temples. Christians are the Temple of God. Nor are temples mentioned in the passage you quote. Nor do you understand the passage you quoted if you believe the Bible teaches Christians to pretend to be baptized for the dead.
The fact that you are a biased participant might lead some to believe that you can’t be an objective source of information. Remember your (apparent) slander of Jews in your post? I suggest you post some factual links and let’s have a real discussion.
“It is also a place where you can go and leave the outside world behind to feel the Holy Ghost and the Love of God.”
What is felt there is the lobby of a Marriott. It is made up out of whole cloth. In God’s Temple in the Hebrew Scriptures, He specified in detail how His Temple should look. Mormon temples aren’t in any of the mormonic scriptures. This explains why Marriott had to step in and help.
Prove it.
“The Romneys have also given annually to their family charity, the Tyler Charitable Foundation, which, in turn, has paid out large sums to the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation, Sabin Children’s Foundation, National Multiple Sclerosis Society and to Mitt Romney’s alma mater, Brigham Young University.”
Most of my “charitable contributions” are also directly to my church, and mostly pay the salary of my pastor, and the cost of the building we use. A portion of the money the church collects goes to missionaries, which also is a solely church-related function. A small part goes to the deacon’s fund, which does traditional charity work, but mostly for people in the church.
I don’t know whether any other people fall into this category. But I would suspect that a large amount of the donations by Catholics who are freepers go to their church as well.
So I’m not sure how much of an “attack” it is to hit someone because their giving is mostly to their church.
The hit goes back to whether the church is a valid one, and whether the church does true charity with the money. But both of those discussions have nothing to do with the members of the church giving money to the church (I’m not arguing that donations to the mormon church are more or less charitably used here).
I’m certain Romney gave more money away to secular or non-sectarian charity than I did. I know, he has more money.
Let's apply this argument to the homosexual activist agenda:
I certainly have had my disputes with homosexual activists here on FR but I too see no reason to belittle their claims....lets stop being the constant haters....we can't hate everyone...
You know ... despite claims to the contrary of your secular high school & college profs of "tolerance," disagreement does not = "hate" ...
My relatives are Lds; I am a descendent of a polygamist Mormon.
Some times we need to start loving people with the truth:
"Love rejoices in the truth." (1 Corinthians 13:6)
As I stated, "And their generosity is nearly always toward their sect and to other mormons."
Now, unless you were, as I was, born into mormonism, lived for several years in communities heavily populated and controlled by mormons, you won't have seen first-hand that what I stated is true.
So, save your indignation and support for Mitt for the next time he begins his campaign for POTUS.
This is important work, Colofornian. Thanks for posting. What we believe matters!
Amen!
Well, the graveyard can be a "peaceful" place too...til at night when the Mormon goblins arrive:
Fourth Mormon Prophet Wilford Woodruff told followers in 1887, "The dead will be after you, they will seek after you as they have after us in St. George (Journal of Discourses 19:229). Woodruff is referring to the St. George temple in southern Utah. He also stated, “I will here say that two weeks before I left St. George, the spirits of the dead gathered around me, wanting to know why we did not redeem them. Said they, "You have had the use of the Endowment House for a number of years, and yet nothing has ever been done for us. We laid the foundation of the government you now enjoy, and we never apostatized from it, but we remained true to it and were faithful to God. These were the signers of the Declaration of Independence, and they waited on me for two days and two nights” (The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, p.160). In his book titled Temple Manifestations, Mormon writer Joseph Heinerman lists several accounts of dead spirits visiting patrons in LDS temples. However, such encounters are never condoned by the Bible and as such, should be shunned rather than encouraged.They see dead people?
Would you like to tell us Tep why the same "prophet" you have trusted in to begin placing the breaks on polygamy tells you that "The dead will be after you, they will seek after you as they have after us in St. George [temple]"???
Would you like to tell us Teppe why the Lds official church publications & BYU curricula have highlighted these so-called "dead people" coming after & seeking after the living???
The "official" BYU & Lds church accounts are right here...a few clicks away for ANY poster to visit:
Lds Temple Haunted? Did Declaration of Independence signers appear as ghosts to leader? [Vanity]
Step 1: Click on this above link
Steps 2 & 3: Click on the Accounts #1 & #4 at the previous link...the BYU source is at "Account 1"...the official Lds church curricula link is at "Account 4"
ALL: You need to ask yourself why Teppe would want to hide this info by slandering the person who is providing the link?
And this matters beyond kudos...and the work itself.
It matters...
...for Mormons to escapism not just the cultic worldviews of Mormonism...
...but the occultic cultural & ritualistic entrappings of the Mormon temple...
...and that matters for eternity!
It also matters when people engage in identity theft and begin to use your name, effecting EVERYTHING about you reputationally.
I'm sure people like Teppe, Dunblak, and Cherry wouldn't for a single moment tolerate people utilizing their name as a counterfeit identity theft operation.
That affects finances for what is to be used for ultimate value on this earth; that affects reputation -- in this case associating things as "Christian" that have nothing to do with Christianity such as overdosing on the dead, which is what Mormons do.
There are no Christian Temples. Christians are the Temple of God. Nor are temples mentioned in the passage you quote. Nor do you understand the passage you quoted if you believe the Bible teaches Christians to pretend to be baptized for the dead. [AMPU]
ALL: The Mormon church owns the Deseret Book Co. In 1977, it printed a book entitled: A Topical Guide to the Scriptures of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints...why it wouldn't surprise me if Teppe referenced it as a young missionary lad on the mission field.
I look at the entry for "temple" found on pp. 451-452. Per this source, the Helaman and Alma references are to "unholy temples."
That leaves only three Book of Mormon books that references "temple"...2 Nephi 5:16, Jacob 1:17; 2:2; and 3 Nephi 11:1; 24:1...the last one is about the Lord coming to his temple...The first one is about a temple being built...3 Nephi 11:1 is about being around a temple...which leaves only the book of Jacob telling anybody what was done in a temple...Jacob 1:17 says teaching was going on there...and the word of God was declared in the temple in Jacob 2:2...
That is the full extent of Book of Mormon teachings on the temple!
If Mormonism is some "restoration" of what they were doing in BoM times, then where did all of this ritualism come from???
What hate are you seeing?
Posting the words of mormonism, is hate?
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