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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Thank you, Brian, for posting the updated information. You wrote, They are usually very good but they failed miserably in the prudence, charity and sound judgment departments yesterday.

The beauty of the Catholic Church, as I see it, is its ability to accommodate the desire of Catholics to worship our Lord in a particular manner. This is a tremendous gift! It's a big church in which there are many chapels. We saw this evidenced over the past few days in the procession of cardinals into the conclave and at today's mass.


Bechara Boutros Cardinal Rai, (my) Patriarch of Antioch, for the Maronite Church


Baselios Cardinal Cleemis of the Syro-Malankar Church


Antonios Cardinal Naguib. While he was at the conclave, Patriarch Ibrahim Isaac Sidrak was enthroned as patriarch of the Coptic Catholic Church on March 12


George Cardinal Alencherry of the Syro-Malabar Church

There was another cardinal from the Greek Catholic Church but I can't recall his name. Each one was shown dignity and respect for their respective office.

While no one has so stated, I expect that these "traditionalist catholics" would prefer to see the entire Latin Church restored to the Traditional Latin Mass. I expect they would also like to see the pope don the papal tiara and be carried on a papal throne. I get the impression from their comments that they hold the Novus Ordo liturgy in contempt and feel the new pope should adopt the TLM as the form of liturgy he will celebrate.

Had an Eastern Cardinal been elected, I wonder how they would have reacted. In reading through some of the comments posted on that site, what upset me most were those directed at Cardinal Bergoglio's attendance at various non-Catholic worship services. Those comments stand in contrast to UNITATIS REDINTEGRATIO.

Would appreciate your comments. Thank you, Brian.

23 posted on 03/14/2013 3:26:06 PM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
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To: NYer
While no one has so stated, I expect that these "traditionalist catholics" would prefer to see the entire Latin Church restored to the Traditional Latin Mass.

Me too, frankly. And some at the Vatican apparently agree: Vatican official: "The new Mass is a passing phase. In 50 years, that will be entirely clear."

I get the impression from their comments that they hold the Novus Ordo liturgy in contempt and feel the new pope should adopt the TLM as the form of liturgy he will celebrate.

Trads can dream. I attend the TLM every Sunday and the Novus Ordo on weekdays. Someday I hope I am able to attend the TLM daily.

Had an Eastern Cardinal been elected, I wonder how they would have reacted.

Many trads have taken refuge, short term or long term, in the Eastern Rites. We attended Byzantine Divine Liturgies for 3 years. I don't know any trads that have a problem with eastern rite hierarchy in any way whatsoever.

In reading through some of the comments posted on that site, what upset me most were those directed at Cardinal Bergoglio's attendance at various non-Catholic worship services. Those comments stand in contrast to UNITATIS REDINTEGRATIO.

Most trads have a real problem with the documents of Vatican II. The SSPX believes VII ushered in false ecumenism. Trads want to see the return of true ecumenism, i.e., efforts to bring non-Catholics into the One, True Church. I don't see that as a bad thing. The "ecumenical" practices of the post-Vatican II Church are not beyond reproach.

29 posted on 03/14/2013 6:41:36 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: NYer
I expect that these "traditionalist catholics" would prefer to see the entire Latin Church restored to the Traditional Latin Mass. I expect they would also like to see the pope don the papal tiara and be carried on a papal throne. I get the impression from their comments that they hold the Novus Ordo liturgy in contempt and feel the new pope should adopt the TLM as the form of liturgy he will celebrate.

I think this overstates things a bit, at least as I understand from reading various traditional blogs and fora. Though I am not technically a traditionalist (I have never been to a TLM since they have been banned or effectively banned in my diocese since time immemorial) I am quite sympathetic to their position and I do think what they seek is generally a good thing. On the whole the traditionalists I know and speak to online do not feel that the OF is evil or invalid, but simply inferior. They also think that the TLM is truly Catholic and part of the deposit of faith which means it should be defended and promoted regardless of whether people continue to use the OF. And while I don't doubt they would love to see the Holy Father celebrate in the EF their real worry is more that they will not be allowed to do so themselves. And, to be honest, they have a good reason to fear if history means anything. We should remember that the Mass they love was really entirely forbidden for years, and anyone who wished to celebrate according to that historic form was castigated as somehow schismatic and medieval.

What if your own church's Liturgy were abrogated suddenly and anyone celebrating it were attacked as divisive? What if this went on for thirty or more years and then you were allowed only one such liturgy a month hundreds of miles from your house, and it was suggested that this was more than adequate for your needs? And, what if this form were then required to include foreign additions which were never part of the patrimony of your church? Would you resent this? And, after years of such when a pope came along who finally made some gestures of tolerance how would you feel about bishops and cardinals who still said no to that authority and continued to block your access to your own church's historic liturgy? And, after all that, what would be your reaction if just such a hierarch were then to be named pope? I can tell you you might find yourself quite nervous. Quite nervous indeed.

We should pray for our new pope, and we should be as charitable as we can when speaking of him. I absolutely agree with this. And, it is undeniable that some have failed to do this. This is unfortunate. But, I also think there are far too many who, having never been where these people have been, are quick to criticise and attack them when they speak out of fear. I am not saying you are doing this, but I do think it is done. We need to be charitable to our pope, but we also should try to be charitable to these among his flock who find themselves in possibly frightening territory yet again.

30 posted on 03/14/2013 7:06:57 PM PDT by cothrige
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