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To: NYer
Tinfoil hat alert.

Meaning, as you are also the OP, that you will brook no disagreement or criticism.

Acknowledged - and hardly new from Catholics. But I would point out that as a person, a human being before God, you have still chosen to be a Catholic. So while you try to shift the responsibility for your personal faith to the teachings of the Church, just remember, you chose that Church, with those teachings.

And the Church agrees - do and think everything it says you should do or think, but remember, before God you're still personally responsible for everything you do or think, even though you were following Church instructions. So the shifting of spiritual responsibility here is temporal, not spiritual.

Which is kind of a spoiler for the idea of obeying the Church = obeying God. Because if it ain't necessarily so, then what role does the Church play other than advisor? Spiritually, before God, none. Temporally, before the world, however, it provides pretty heavy indemnification and social protection. So I guess it serves the purpose most Catholics want it to serve, and to make up the difference they figure God will be merciful because they "tried."

And hey, I can easily see how the Church is pleased with the deal. But as for Catholics, I don't think they've thought it through as carefully as they claim to have done - otherwise we'd hear a lot more of them admitting personal belief for their thoughts and actions, rather than Church obedience to evade that personal responsibility.

Lest you think this is just a hack attack on Catholics - think again. If you want to understand, really understand, why non-Catholics most often get irritated with Catholics, understand this post. Because everyone has their own ideas about religion and God, but Catholics play both sides against the middle - they hide behind Church teachings when it helps them, and then they claim personal responsibility when that serves them, and it simply comes across as morally dishonest and hypocritical to everyone else, because, in fact, it is. But the kicker is that the Church itself doesn't provide the indemnification before God that most Catholics think it does, so ultimately, this personal fraud certainly will not be ignored.

Benedict himself said that he would rather have a much smaller Catholic Church of members who strictly conformed to Church teachings, than a huge, sprawling inclusive Church where everyone takes their own slant. He was addressing this very issue of hypocrisy. Before God, it's better to honestly not be a Catholic, then to claim Catholicism as some sort of indemnification for your own beliefs, bobbing, dodging and weaving through life in the delusion that somehow you're actually going to fool God in the end as to what you actually stand for.

6 posted on 03/08/2013 12:30:21 PM PST by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: Talisker

Very insightful.


10 posted on 03/08/2013 12:47:28 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Talisker
Meaning, as you are also the OP, that you will brook no disagreement or criticism.

I have no problem with criticism .. so long as it is properly directed and not judgmental.

But I would point out that as a person, a human being before God, you have still chosen to be a Catholic. So while you try to shift the responsibility for your personal faith to the teachings of the Church, just remember, you chose that Church, with those teachings.

Clarification. I was baptized into the Catholic faith as an infant, raised and educated in the faith until adulthood. Like some Catholics, I have strayed over the years. Each time, I have returned to the Catholic Church because it is the Church established by Jesus Christ. Oddly enough, though baptized into the Roman Catholic Church, I practice my faith in the Maronite Church which traces its history back to the time when Peter served as bishop before proceeding to Rome.

And the Church agrees - do and think everything it says you should do or think, but remember, before God you're still personally responsible for everything you do or think, even though you were following Church instructions.

Have you actually read through the above article?

18 posted on 03/08/2013 2:45:39 PM PST by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
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To: Talisker

“Because if it ain’t necessarily so, then what role does the Church play other than advisor? Spiritually, before God, none.”

This is a great point. When it’s time for us to answer to God, we have only one advocate that we can turn to for our defense, and that is not the church, it’s Jesus Christ. So, if you plan to say “but... the church told me to do this”, I think you may be on shaky ground.


24 posted on 03/08/2013 3:01:55 PM PST by Boogieman
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