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To: cothrige

re: “Here we see Man created and then all the animals, specifically and given by name including cattle and birds, both of which were specifically named in Genesis 1 as having been created before man. The same is true of plants and many other things as well, but this was the best example I think. It would be very hard to see this as anything other than a contradiction, unless one resorts to wildly strange ways of reading the text.”

This is another one of those passages that you must read in context of the whole of chapter 2. If you look carefully, you will see that the events mentioned in this chapter are not always in chronological order. For example in Genesis 2:5-7:

“5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.”

Here it looks as if man was created prior to any plant life, but then look at verse 8:

“8 Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.”

Though it looked as though man was created before any plant life, it mentions in verse 8 that God had already planted a garden and put the man he created there.

The next few verses tell us how God placed man in the garden and told him to work it and take care of it, and, to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Then in verse 18 God observes that it is not good that man be alone and it mentions in verse 19:

“Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky.” (NIV)

Notice it says that the Lord God “had formed” the animals. It indicates that the animals had already been around, just like plant life and the garden had already been in existence prior to Adam being put in the garden.

I am curious as to what translation of the Bible you are using that has Genesis 2:19 beginning with the word “when”. I have looked at over 30 different translations and none of them begin verse 19 with the word “when”. Most say, “and out of the ground God formed”, “the Lord God HAD formed”, or “So the Lord God formed”.

The use of the word “when” can make it sound like Adam was around first. So, like I said, I am curious as to the translation you are quoting from. I’ve checked, as I said, over 30 translations, including the KJV, the NKJV, NIV, NASB, RSV, and none began verse 19 with the word “when”.


56 posted on 03/03/2013 1:11:40 AM PST by rusty schucklefurd
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To: rusty schucklefurd
Those are interesting points, but I think it still requires some contortionist types of reading. The important verse, as I see it, is Genesis 2:18, which says "Then the Lord God said, 'It is not good that the man is alone; I will make him a helper like himself.'" At this point he makes the animals, and then after taking them to the man we are told "but he found no helper like himself." Obviously the man already existed and the animals were created for him. God clearly says "the man is alone" and this makes it impossible that he was doing these things because the man would be alone. I am comfortable with your take that this chapter is not entirely meant to be read as chronological, but in this it is hard to avoid the clear statement and then the response to that statement.

Regarding my bible translation I happened to grab a near at hand copy of the Confraternity Bible. As a comparison though the RSV says: "So out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them" and this also seems to indicate the order I believe is otherwise obvious. The NIV has "now out of the ground" while the AV has "And out of the ground." I don't really think any of these differ for the reasons I have given above. The obvious meaning, given the words of the Lord in verse 18, is that man was created and then the animals. It really does seem impossible to avoid that understanding without ripping the clear intent of scripture out at the roots.

108 posted on 03/03/2013 1:30:32 PM PST by cothrige
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