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To: knarf; Campion

Oddly, we don’t disagree about the fact that the Church is built upon Christ, His grace and His sacrifice. The Church is also the Body of Christ, and the Bride of Christ—all biblical terminology.

But Jesus was about to leave this world in the flesh, and He chose human leaders of the Church to help guide it. Peter was the chief leader of the Apostles, as we see in the Book of Acts, where he leads the first Council of the Church, a meeting of the twelve apostles (with a twelth elected on the spot), to determine whether or not every Christian needs to be circumcised or to obey the Jewish ritual laws.

This is NOT to say that Peter or any Pope is the Head of the Church except through God’s grace and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Catholics believe—in accordance with the Bible—that Jesus chose leaders and provided Sacraments to His Church. But none of this would be possible without His continued grace and support—the same grace that many Protestants think will be channeled ONLY through individuals, and without benefit of any sacraments except Baptism.

But we can agree that the foundation stone underlying all of it is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Protestants simply refuse to pay attention to inconvenient verses in the biblical account. Jesus decided to rely on human beings to run His Church on earth, although He also provides grace to each individual Christian—but largely through participation in the Mass and the Sacraments. “Go out in my name,” he told his disciples. Baptize and teach and provide the Sacraments.


19 posted on 03/02/2013 9:37:09 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Cicero
Hmmm ... Jesus says if you see Him you've seen the father, and if He didn't go away, The Comfortor (Holy Spirit) could not come, so the key to salvation is Jesus and His work, done once on Calvary, for ALL (whomsoever .. and they were/are not yet members of a church ... ) and the knowledge and remembrance is the the work the Holy Spirit does .. for all whom believe and nowhere is there a designated priesthood.

Peter stood up and spoke, but he did that ALL the time.

He'd'a been a FreepeR fershur!

I am no Protestant ... I'm a Christian, not because of any church nor baptism, nor rite nor ritual, but because one day in 1981 the Holy Spirit revealed to me my sin condition and the penalty for it unattended .. and the remedy If I So Desired.

My favorite guy is the "repentent thief" who never joined a church nor got baptized ... just confessed Jesus as Lord and believed He had a Kingdom to go to and COULD take him there.

Jesus says, "Yup .. C'mon"

(That's the original Arimaic)

And He still says that today to all whom call upon Him.

20 posted on 03/02/2013 2:36:35 PM PST by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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