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To: D-fendr
...and this despite the best efforts of many to make themselves into the sole font of Christ's grace & forgiveness.

The true Church extends far beyond the self-proclaimed authority of that clown-crew, with members (recognized by the Lord as His own) being spread far and wide. Some of them are even part of the "clowns" (funny hat wearers), despite their own misapplied assumptions concerning themselves, and the limits to their own reach.

Yes, the Lord is truly marvelous, in keeping His own promises.

The Church is far bigger than that which a Latin bishop (or that bishop's promoters?) may claim. Here more of late (some fifty years ago) there was a "clarification" pronounced by the clown crew. They had to admit, contrary to other previous statements, that there was portions of this church which Christ established, somewhat beyond them...even as they simultaneously claimed themselves to be the ultimate head of those other congregations, too. As "Alter Christus"...

Thank God, for God. His Holy Spirit takes no direction from the clowns, not limiting Himself to their proclamations, even as He does at times entertain their own personal requests, supplying to them in their needs, offering His presence to be found within and among them.

But let us not confuse Him with "them".

God will not be mocked, nor bested. The clowns have shown themselves time and again, to not be beyond the need of correction. The same can be said for those whom wear simpler hats...or hardly any hat at all.

15 posted on 02/28/2013 12:40:53 PM PST by BlueDragon
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To: BlueDragon

We have different ideas of Church. We see it as one, holy, universal and apostolic. There is both a visible, as we see in Acts and St. Paul’s epistles, and invisible Church. On this we differ.

Best wishes and thanks for your reply.


17 posted on 02/28/2013 3:54:59 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: BlueDragon
An autocratic org has the right to redefine what it meant so that what it meant is what it now means. .

Pope Pius IX, Amantissimus: “There are other, almost countless, proofs drawn from the most trustworthy witnesses which clearly and openly testify with great faith, exactitude, respect and obedience that all who want to belong to the true and only Church of Christ must honor and obey this Apostolic See and Roman Pontiff." Pope Pius IX, Amantissimus (On The Care Of The Churches), Encyclical promulgated on April 8, 1862, # 3. http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/P9AMANT2.HTM

• Pope Pius IX (1846–1878), Encyclical Singulari Quidem March 17, 1856):
There is only one true, holy, Catholic Church, which is the Apostolic Roman Church. There is only one See founded on Peter by the word of the Lord, outside of which we cannot find either true faith or eternal salvation. He who does not have the Church for a mother cannot have God for a father, and whoever abandons the See of Peter on which the Church is established trusts falsely that he is in the Church. (On the Unity of the Catholic Church) http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9singul.htm

Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam:
We declare, say, define, and pronounce [ex cathedra] that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”

"If, therefore, the Greeks or others say that they are not committed to Peter and to his successors, they necessarily say that they are not of the sheep of Christ, since the Lord says that there is only one fold and one shepherd (Jn.10:16). Whoever, therefore, resists this authority, resists the command of God Himself. " — Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam (Promulgated November 18, 1302) http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/b8-unam.html

Fifth Lateran Council: Moreover, since subjection to the Roman pontiff is necessary for salvation for all Christ's faithful, as we are taught by the testimony of both sacred scripture and the holy fathers, and as is declared by the constitution of pope Boniface VIII of happy memory, also our predecessor, which begins Unam sanctam, we therefore...renew and give our approval to that constitution... Fifth Lateran CouncilSession 11, 19 December 1516, http://www.piar.hu/councils/ecum18.htm

Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors. Did not the ancestors of those who are now entangled in the errors of Photius [the eastern “Orthodox” schismatics] and the reformers, obey the Bishop of Rome, the chief shepherd of souls?...Let none delude himself with obstinate wrangling. For life and salvation are here concerned...” Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos, PTC:873) The Promotion of True Religious Unity), 11, Encyclical promulgated on January 6, 1928, #11; http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_19280106_mortalium-animos_en.html

"The sacrosanct Roman Church...firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that..schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life..unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church." — Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino, Bull promulgated on February 4, 1441 (Florentine style), proclaimed “ex cathedra” (infallible).

Therefore, if anyone says that it is not by the institution of Christ the lord himself (that is to say, by divine law) that blessed Peter should have perpetual successors in the primacy over the whole Church; or that the Roman Pontiff is not the successor of blessed Peter in this primacy: let him be anathema. — Vatican 1, Ses. 4, Cp. 1 
 
"subjection to the Roman pontiff is necessary for salvation for all Christ's faithful..." Fifth Lateran Council Session 11, 19 December 1516

19 posted on 02/28/2013 6:56:03 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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