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To: terycarl; Boogieman
Amen, terycarl. I think that you had already adequately defined and clarified the Church's teachings about her ability to teach, govern, and sanctify, well before boogieman raised his "as it sounds to me" objection.

Some seem to think that the Church kinda shrunk in authority --- effectively disappeared ---or should I say "petered out"? --- sometime during the 1st century. This thinking fails to take into account that Our Lord explicitly made Peter chief shepherd at the end of the Gospel of John. He promised that hell would not prevail over this Church He was building (Matt. 16:18). He gave the Church the office of teacher (Matt. 28:16-20), and since the Church would be overcome if error prevailed, Jesus' promise that the Church would not be overcome means that the Church's teachings are true.

Jesus promised a special authority to those to whom he said, "I give you the power to bind and to loose" and "He who hears you, hears Me."

368 posted on 02/27/2013 5:49:49 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("The Church of the Living God: the pillar and foundation of the truth." - 1 Tim 3:15)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I don’t think the church petered out, or shrunk in authority, I simply don’t think the church is what Catholics think it is. They seem to think that it is an earthly organization that was founded by Christ through Peter, whereas I think it is a spiritual organization founded by Christ through the Holy Spirit. I know that Catholics at least acknowledge the spiritual church, but they act as if the earthly one has more importance, when just the opposite is true: the earthly church is just a shadow of the heavenly body of all believers.


377 posted on 02/27/2013 7:26:45 AM PST by Boogieman
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To: Mrs. Don-o; terycarl; Boogieman
Jesus promised a special authority to those to whom he said, "I give you the power to bind and to loose" and "He who hears you, hears Me."

Yes, Jesus did. He specifically gave that power and commission to individuals for a specific purpose - the establishment of the church age and the winning of souls to Christ who would make up that body. Nowhere do we read that these SPECIFIC individuals were given authority by Christ to ALSO pass down that same power and authority that Christ gave to them. These early leaders faithfully accomplished what Jesus entrusted them to do and the Body of Christ grew exponentially as the Gospel spread throughout the known world. As they led souls to Christ and discipled them, they ordained those who were enabled by the gifts of the Holy Spirit to be pastors, teachers, evangelists for the edification of the members of each local assembly. These men also, in turn, ensured the gospel truth was preserved and passed on. The "succession" was one of truth and not of persons or primacy of stature.

When it became obvious to the Apostles that Jesus was not returning imminently, they, through the inspiration and leading of the Holy Spirit, wrote down all that Jesus had taught them as well as additional truths he revealed to them through the Holy Spirit as they grew in the grace and knowledge of Christ. The Divinely-inspired writings were copied and passed on to each local church from the Apostles, themselves and their authority was automatically received. We STILL have those writings today and they stand as the one, true, OBJECTIVE authority for the rule of faith for all Christians.

Any person or organization that stands up and proclaims it, alone, is the ONLY true church must first prove Jesus was talking about there being a SINGLE organized institution and not a spiritual body made of believers from all times and places. Just because a group claims to be the one, true church, doesn't mean that they are.

So, how would we know which "church" is teaching the truth? NOT because they say they are, but ONLY if what they teach can be proved by the ONE, TRUE, OBJECTIVE authority God made sure we have - the Holy Scriptures. The early church "fathers" believed this. All the Apostles certainly believed it.

As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—eternal life. I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him. (I John 2:24-27)

396 posted on 02/27/2013 3:11:06 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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