The quoted comments from the slideshow excerpt that begin to talk about a high stake council member's naivety of his faith -- and concludes with this quote above -- were not slideshow presenter John Dehlin's comments; he yet was quoting someone else as found on slides 19 through 23.
What is interesting is that Dehlin titled this presentation as an actual encouragement for Mormons to consider staying in the Lds church...(though he added a disclaimer that it wasn't "for everyone.")
Last week, Dehlin updated this slideshow with roughly the same advice: See 400: Top 5 Myths and Truths about Why Committed Mormons Leave the Church (Mormon Stories Podcast almost an hour long)
Dehlin, an internal Mormon critic of the church...is trying to change it from the inside-out.
What I find "interesting" about this "reformation" effort is that Dehlin advises Lds members to strongly consider staying, yet his 2007 slideshow quote of a conflicted Lds high stake council member concluding that there was no "middle ground" seems to run in stark contrast to that advice: "The church is either exactly what it claims to be, or the biggest fraud ever perpetrated upon mankind."
Per Wheat and Tares.org (http://www.wheatandtares.org/2012/07/30/sunstone-2012-recap/), Dehlin spoke at the 2012 Sunstone Conference and claims he's a "believer in something" and that he "doesn’t believe the Book of Mormon is a literal history, but believes it is inspired, and he doesn’t believe the Church is the 'only true church,' but rather one of many."
Throughout Dehlin's presentations, he tries -- vainly -- to seek out some Mormon "middle ground" that would allow him and other Mormons to engage in what I reference as "saving social face"...all apparently so they can find a way to stay put and keep their cultural identity, their family commitments and relationships, etc...even as the "heart" of their Mormon faith erodes away!
What's ironic in all this is that Lds "prophet" Gordon B. Hinckley challenged Mormons to not even try this route: "Each of us has to face the matter -- either the Church is true, or it is a fraud. There is no middle ground. It is the Church and Kingdom of God or it is nothing." (Lds church "prophet" Gordon B. Hinckley, "Loyalty," Ensign (Conference Edition), May 2003, p. 60
What's also ironic is that Dehlin pushes disaffected and disassociated Mormons to keep pursuing truth claims that run directly counter to the propagandistic "party line" oft' given by the Lds church -- even to the point of last week's "Top 5 Myths and Truths..." (see link above) emphasizing that these disaffected and disassociated Mormons are only doing what the Lds hymn Do What is Right [Let the Consequences Follow} encourages them to do!
Well, which is it? Are Lds going to truly "Do What is Right" and "Let the Consequences Follow"??? Or will they try to continue surfing a non-existent wave of a non-existent "middle ground"???
See: Mormon Reformation [Posting of 95 Theses on Mormon Church Doors]
place mark
Sad very sad.
I have known Christians who have had a crisis of faith, and their testimonies always talk about God and Jesus Christ not their “church”. I found that interesting in comparison to this man.
Upon learning what he began to uncover about Mormonism (see above...or slide 8)... he said he felt "deceived...angry like it was all a fraud...like he had a moral obligation to resign" (slide 9) and soon discovered many others like him.
Here’s some advice for every mormon:
LEAVE! If you claim to love Christ, “come out from among them and be holy.”
If you stay, you are accepting the words of men that contradict the Holy Scriptures of God.
1. God is ONE God. There are not 4 mormon earth gods plus billions of other gods. God says there is one and that there will never be another. Please use your mind. How can two gods be omnipotent? They cannot.
2. Satan’s message that you can become like god is the mormon message. No one “becomes” god. You are not going to be a god any more than Satan will become god.
3. Jesus Christ is eternal. Never created. Mormon teaching reduces Him to part of creation.
4. The Gospel of Grace alone saves. The result of His new Life is the fruit of good works. Mormon teaching forces mormons to try to earn “worthiness”. You will never be worthy enough to deserve the sacrifice of the Blood and Life of Christ. It is a gift.
5. Joseph Smith was a horndog scammer. He was not a prophet. Please read history.
6. The foundation of truth is the Holy Bible - not your feelings. When everything is said and done, the foundation of mormonism is the elevation of feelings over objective truth.
7. Mormonism is not Christianity. Not close. There is nothing shared between Christianity and mormonism, except the name “Jesus Christ”... and when each uses the name, they mean a different person.
8. There is no “restored Gospel”. It was never lost. It remains in the Bible today, as it has since the beginning. You cannot restore what is not lost. It can save you today, and yet you wait?
9. There is no “restored Church”. The Church has never ceased to exist.
10. Today is the appointed day of salvation. You have today. Tomorrow may never come. “It is appointed once for man to die, and after this comes judgement.”
What are you waiting for? You are sincere, but on the wrong path. Only you are keeping your feet on the wrong path. You can change paths today. Now. Do it while there is still time.
“Each of us has to face the matter — either the Church is true, or it is a fraud. There is no middle ground. It is the Church and Kingdom of God or it is nothing.”
These are false statements. The LDS church IS in the middle ground between truth and falsehood as it incorporates some of both into doctrines. That is what makes it confusing. There are obvious truths (LDS teach the Ten Commandments) and some apparent falsehoods (Joseph Smith as the subject of worship and praise) also taught. The LDS leadership is caught between moving toward truth and maintaining the status quo. Either way they move some will be offended. Sitting on the fence is the wrong thing to do here, but do they have the fortitude to initiate change???
Years ago, Madeline Murray O’Hair was on the LARRY KING LIVE SHOW. I personally saw the show on TV so it is not second hand. It was before she took her dirt nap.
She said that the best atheists were former MORMONS and CATHOLICS.
Oh, it's a fraud alright, but not the "biggest" one ever perpetrated upon mankind. For that designation solely belongs to Islam.