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To: newberger
1. T...We do NOT believe in changing the scriptures nor the faith to meet contemporary needs. Did I misunderstand your original claim?

We might be talking pass each other. Did you noticed the post above yours? (#33 I believe)

2. We do NOT support Pelagius.

True the Orthodox do not support Pelagius. They do support John Cassian who was a student of Pelagius. Please note this from Orthodox Wiki:

It should be noted, as you mentioned in #4, John Cassian is considered a saint in the Orthodox Church while Augustine is not. For good reason.

We do NOT teach salvation by works. We do teach that works are necessary for the working of salvation in us because salvation is understood as the transformation (by Grace) of the soul rather than an imputed state.

I think that is a fair and appreciated clarification. But if works are necessary for salvation, then isn't one saved by their works?

35 posted on 02/10/2013 6:19:57 PM PST by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD
I noticed #33 after I posted, Sorry. Thanks for pointing it out.

But if works are necessary for salvation, then isn't one saved by their works?

Not in the sense that St. Paul is talking about in Romans.

Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

Here St. Paul contrasts works and faith for salvation. The central point here and in the surrounding context is meriting or earning salvation -- expecting salvation as *payment* for the works. We do not believe that our works are earning salvation. Rather the work of God's grace in our hearts produces the righteousness in our that *is* salvation from sin.

Another way to talk about it is that Evangelical theology separates justification from sanctification and considers salvation to *be* justification, seen as a point event involving a judicial declaration but not necessarily a transformation. Orthodox thought has never separated the two. Salvation is justification plus sanctification as a continuous process because salvation involves not only being rescued from guilt but from sin itself.

37 posted on 02/10/2013 7:00:06 PM PST by newberger (Put not your trust in princes, in sons of men in whom there is no salvation.)
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