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To: Rashputin

I like Christ as well. He also said:

John 6:65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

John 15:16 “You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.”


168 posted on 02/08/2013 3:58:55 PM PST by kosciusko51 (Enough of "Who is John Galt?" Who is Patrick Henry?)
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To: kosciusko51; D-fendr
First, my response reads a good bit differently than I intended it to because I was jumping between things and submitted before I finished I guess. Sorry about that.

I read the entire passage I quoted from as well as many others in books about predestination and the many portions of Scripture people claim proves their view. People take a verse here and there or a passage here and there and use it to paint a picture that they feel fits the context when the context of the author and the author's relationship to the audience is sometimes not appropriate to the context someone applies it to.

What an apparently simple a simple sentence means to those on active duty (the folks who really know what it means to be a slave to Christ not free to do some things) and what the same sentence means to folks who look at a recruiting poster, look through brochures at the recruiting office, or who are civilians interested in military matters, is frequently as great as the difference between night and day.

Christ said it is the will of His Father that none should parish. Christ said, "This is my body". In neither case do I see any reason to categorize either statement as anything other than a clear, direct, simple, statement of fact. When Christ says, "you are my sheep", it's a figure of speech those who know they're sheep for the slaughter see differently than those who read "This is my body." and see that as a figure of speech as well. Like I said in my first comment, it's all straight forward to me which is why I don't bother with conversations or debates on the subject much.

I'm a sheep to the slaughter if that's where Christ decides I need to be. Spend several years in the hospital doing rehab after you've been all but slaughtered and there's no mystery involved with regard to predestination anymore. You can read all the enlistment brochures, study histories of the military services, read all about military life, you can even enlist only to become a deserter or traitor, but you can't understand some things until after you've irrevocably committed and Christ has committed you to the battle as His instrument. Hence we find Scripture that says, "My sheep hear my voice" used all sorts of ways when the sheep who still see themselves as brave, self-sufficient, buck mountain goats rather than as sheep have no idea what it really means.

It's similar to talking about day to day life in the late fifties with people born in or after the sixties.

Only those who are old enough to have experienced that difference have the common frame of reference. With no common frame of reference, younger people can't understand simple things like "I filled up the car", "I applied for the job", or "going on a date", in that context without a great deal of additional detail. Detail I may or may not include in a given conversation depending on whether or not I care that younger folks get more than a superficial understanding of what I mean.

176 posted on 02/08/2013 10:08:19 PM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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