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To: D-fendr
Thanks for your post. I'm sorry but I think your reply supports the dichotomy rather than refutes it.

No sir, it does not, but rather points towards the ill-applied descriptions on either side of the fulcrum as they are incomplete on both sides of the balancing point upon which they are weighed, one against the other.

You have election>salvation and supported the doctrine of salvation by election.

And the problem with this is...? What? It doesn't give man enough credit when he hears God and believes, thus earning (in part) salvation, when we can see from the beginning of the Judeo-Christian construct that righteousness was said to be "credited" to Abram not of or by his own get-go.

Christ is the author and finisher of faith (belief) not we as man filling in the blanks. No, whenever the latter (man scribbling in that context) can be seen to have occurred, there is sin as result.

On the other hand, in objections to Calvinist views, there seems to be need for strenuous emphasis acknowledging man be part of his own condemnation, when all along (at least since the fall of Adam) man was dead already.

Jesus was not sent to the world to condemn the world...for it was condemned already. THIS is significant. What choice can a dead man have(?) I ask you. Is not the answer painfully obvious? Does man answer God from his own grave? Or is it life sourced from the beginning from the Creator Himself which answers? We, being formed but of the dust of the earth, are not "life" any more than the dust is.

148 posted on 02/08/2013 12:04:04 PM PST by BlueDragon (this is the police. we have the house surrounded. come out with your hands up)
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To: BlueDragon
Thanks for your reply.

And the problem with this is...?

It ain't the same doctrine as salvation by grace through faith. That is my point. Non-Calvinist have a completely different interpretation and doctrine that Calvinist double predestination.

It doesn't give man enough credit when he hears God and believes..

It removes man entirely from the equation. It's an extreme position that ends in a false view of God and man and their relationship. There can be no relationship with man as derived from Calvinism.

This is contrary to the whole sense of Holy Scripture including Jesus's ministry.

However you get to this end, you made a wrong term somewhere. Non-Calvinist wisely avoid it.

150 posted on 02/08/2013 12:28:51 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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