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To: D-fendr
To your 77 and 80:

I am not anti science and I suppose you've found the right word, Scientism, to describe what I am anti to.
The over reaching claims of scientists, like the religious leaders, are appalling and so few leaders are really willing to defend their religion against the pseudoscience of today that it seems odd when any do.

Getting back to the subject of this thread....Benedict has made the supernatural the Bible describes subject to scientific definition.

Some sort of creature became human at what point does Benedict say? And is this what the Bible allegorises into Adam being created?

The Bible is the handbook of Christian belief yet so few Christian leaders are willing to make more than a half hearted defence of it.

84 posted on 02/07/2013 7:09:11 PM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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To: count-your-change
thanks for replying..

I am not anti science and I suppose you've found the right word, Scientism, to describe what I am anti to.

A large proportion of the perceived battle between religion and science is based on this. The other proportion is in category errors: using science to infer theology or using theology to derive science.

Benedict has made the supernatural the Bible describes subject to scientific definition.

This would be incorrect thinking. The supernatural, by definition, is outside science not subject to it.

Some sort of creature became human at what point does Benedict say?

If you are asking view on the specifics of any theory or hypothesis involving biogenesis or similar topic, Pope Benedict is not a scientist; He's not going to make the same category error in the opposite direction.

He certainly does speak to inferences from science that violate the truth as revealed by God to His Church.

He is very qualified to discuss the philosophy of science and meta-physics. This concerns epistemology, what can be known by what methods; and, logic/reason - its proper use and misuse. He teaches that reason and science are perfected by faith, and has strongly emphasized relativism as the great threat of our age.

Specifically to your question, the Church teaching is probably best found in Humani Generis. Here you can see that the allegory reading of scripture is only one sense of scripture and it has its limits:

For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains that either after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parent of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now it is no no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled with that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the Teaching Authority of the Church propose with regard to original sin, which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam and which, through generation, is passed on to all and is in everyone as his own. Just as in the biological and anthropological sciences, so also in the historical sciences there are those who boldly transgress the limits and safeguards established by the Church. In a particular way must be deplored a certain too free interpretation of the historical books of the Old Testament.
Adam and Eve were real people, unique, who existed and are the parents of all humans. They were created in the image of God as are we all.
85 posted on 02/07/2013 9:12:35 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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