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To: PeevedPatriot
Here is the problem.

The Mother of Jesus was certainly the most wonderful woman to ever be born.

But putting that aside...how does a person avoid the ancient and still powerful pull toward the worship of the goddess (which is not Mary).

How does one love the Mother Mary without falling into the trap of goddess worship (i.e the worship of Semiramis, Athena, Diana...)

There is a fine line.

We obviously love Mother Mary...but how do we separate our love for Her from those evil idols who seek our devotion.

And make no mistake...idols are not idle. Fallen angels are not resting or dead.

When we pray to someone--anyone--other than Jesus...we are praying to a demon.

Just saying...flame away!

52 posted on 02/05/2013 6:02:52 PM PST by RoosterRedux (Get armed, practice in the use of your weapons, get physically fit, stay alert!)
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To: RoosterRedux

“When we pray to someone—anyone—other than Jesus...we are praying to a demon.”

You seem to be stating the protestant view of prayer that equates the petition as worship. Asking the Saints in Heaven to intercede is as Christian as Church on Sunday.


57 posted on 02/05/2013 6:21:18 PM PST by narses
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To: RoosterRedux
First, let me say I second what Salvation said about you caring for your parents. May God bless you richly!

Second, I have no interest in flaming. As an exProtestant, I formerly shared views that are probably the same or similar to yours. Let me see if I can address the matters you raised.

As for worship of a goddess, I haven't ever experienced the temptation. Nor has anyone ever enticed me in that direction. As a Catholic, I believe that EVERYTHING Mary has is a gift from God. Therefore I look at her as the highest example of God's immense generosity. That doesn't make her a goddess but rather one filled to the fullest extent possible of God's grace.

Again, I find the ark of the new covenant concept most illustrative. God dwelt above the mercy seat of the ark of the old covenant. But the Israelites didn't worship the ark. It contained the staff of Aaron and manna from the desert and was treated with great veneration. But they sacrificed to God not the ark.

And so it is with us and Mary although she is different in that she didn't contain symbols of the faith like a piece of wood and bread. She actually bore within herself the living Bread of Life. But just as the Jews were able to reverence the ark without worshiping it, so we do the same with Mary. She isn't God, she was just privileged (chosen by God) to contain him in a most special way none of the rest of us were selected to do. And this is because of God's goodness to involve the human race in our own redemption. It isn't because she did something to deserve this honor.

She did, however, cooperate with God's grace. She risked being stoned as an unwed mother. She no doubt risked her own life when she fled with Jesus from Herod's murderous rage. She had the courage to show up at the cross. We can admire what she did, the steadfastness of her devotion to him, and how she cooperated with God's grace, but that's hardly worship.

As for prayer "to" Mary, it's really prayer in union with her. It's no different than if I ask you to pray for an ill relative of mine. You could tell me to go straight to Jesus myself. Or you could say, sure, I'll pray for her. What's different for me as a Catholic than during my protestant days is that I'm united to my brothers and sisters in the faith who preceded me into Heaven. We refer to this as the "communion of saints" in our creed. We are all part of the body of Christ (Eph 4:16) worshiping the Trinity, not one another!

And when it comes to those in heaven such as Mary and those we honor as saints hearing our prayers, it is because of the mediation of Christ. Just as Christ mediates your prayers to the Father for my ill relative, he mediates the prayers we ask the saints to make on our behalf. We ask them to pray for us because they are now closer to Jesus in heaven than we are to Him on earth.

Also, I think you commented earlier in the thread that the rosary was about Mary being "front and center." I understand why you might feel that way, but it's really not that way at all. It's a prayer of the gospels. It's a prayer in which we meditate on aspects of Jesus' life from conception to ascension into heaven. Of the 20 different meditations, only 2 center on Mary exclusively and even those are in the context of the Trinity.

My favorite way to pray the rosary is with my Bible open. Read bit of scripture, pray, read a bit of scripture, pray. And believe it or not, sometimes I don't even think about Mary in a particular meditation. For example, sometimes when I'm pondering Jesus' early years, my mind goes off on Joseph looking for the lost Jesus or protecting him from Herod. Or teaching God his prayers! Teaching God his scriptures! So no, Mary doesn't have to be front and center in the prayer although it's possible to pray the rosary just looking at Jesus as she must have seen him. It's a flexible prayer that I can't imagine being able to pray the same way twice.

Peace be with you.

64 posted on 02/05/2013 10:28:26 PM PST by PeevedPatriot
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