Unpaid Mormon Leaders Get a Pretty Sweet Deal [So-called 'unpaid' bishops get $100,000 in benefits!]

Mormon Coffee ^ | Jan. 31, 2013 | Sharon Lindblum

[MeOnTheBeach]

The original was addressed to all and I forgot to include all in my response..bleh

[Me] I'm curious, are you part of a paid ministry?

[You] (No, not employed by a "paid ministry")

I didn't ask if you were employed. I asked if you were a part of a "paid ministry".

Nice job at trying to make the thread all about me. Calling me by name, ranting on and on. I don't think even the nastiest Pharisee couldn't have been so condescending. Congrats.

However, despite the obvious red herring, this doesn't change the facts raised by my question to you.

I'll repost it to get us back on track.

From what I can see your post creates a false dilemma, then a straw man, and then you attack your own straw man.

You haven't addressed the "why". Why are they getting the stipend? Is the stipend for "preaching" or is it for non "preaching" related activities. This makes or breaks your whole argument.

You're trying to show the Mormon Church as "lying" about a lay clergy. Ok, then as the reader I say "prove it". You have this big frigg'n black hole in your argument which you haven't addressed.

Now, I will address some of your rant. Your conclusion is a prime example of the logical fallacy of "Cherry picking". Well, ok, that's one of several. But we'll leave it at that for now.

You rationalize your methods by cherry picking some scriptures and draw a conclusion as to the intent of the author. Then you completely ignore scriptures that would temper or even completely change your conclusion. IMO, that's intellectually dishonest.

Paul taught the gospel of Christ and then defended it. His method would have been consistent with the teaching of all the other prophets and Apostles and especially Jesus Himself.

Remember, Paul was not at war with the Pharisees. He was trying to convince them of the truthfulness of the gospel of Christ. To save them not to hate them.

Paul taught his doctrine and vigorously defended it. But he had to do it from a stand point of charity, love, brotherly kindness, long suffering, patience, and humility. Because that's what Christ commanded all men to do and in EVERY thing they did.

Paul would have had to have been doubly so because of his position in the Church. Paul went about teaching the people the doctrine of Christ, he most assuredly did not go about trying to poison the minds of the people.

So, if you're trying to be like Paul, when are we going to see some charity, love, brotherly kindness, long suffering, patience, and humility?

[MeOnTheBeach]

Eventually I'll get it right... it's one of those days!

See post #141

[BlueDragon]

[To your response]If this is true, then I should be able to see a continuation of the original teachings of the Apostles, more of God's interaction with the Church as it was originally, and an improvement of the members of the church over time, correct?

sniff, sniff

Welcome to the religion forum of FR... or should I say...welcome back?

[Elsie]

Is the stipend for "preaching" or is it for non "preaching" related activities.

Ah...

Qualifiers.

Ya gotta luv 'em!

[Elsie]

When people change the words of the original text around to suit them, put them in a binder and stamp the word Bible on the cover.

 

What's the problem here?

 

John 8:46-47 (NIV)

 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me?

Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

 

 

KJV

⁴⁶ Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

⁴⁷ He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

 

 (I don't read GREEK; so SOMEone had to translate this for me.)

[Vendome]

And that part is why I agreed to start another thread.

To easy.

[ejonesie22]

You can talk to yourself but won’t answer my question.

What church do you attend, where do you hang your hat...

[ejonesie22]

Retread stunt Mormon...

[BlueDragon]

rather obvious.... traces of several "peculiar" themes that fairly leap out at (over?) a guy, making himself ask, "self, where have I heard what I just heard, before?"

I don't know if the count has actually gone up to a full three yet, but it seemed like it. and somebody thinks they are sneaky? oh what lengths are gone to. such a variety of false flags with vague resemblances to others. but the dyes used are thin, and get washed out enough by the slightest breezes, showing the crazy-quilt pattern underneath.

It's the seams. The stitching's have unmistakable pattern, leaving the conspicuous bulges, well, conspicuous.

ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho too funny, and sort-of pathetic at the same time.

time for nap? right around now, this time of day is when I usually finish counting all the lucre brought in from pulling guard duty on this forum. all that counting...and what with all those furry critters with fleeces shaped like clouds passing over head,
is causing me to ......zzzzzzz..........skO-aACh...zzzzz... skoA-aackch......zzzz....

[RFEngineer]

“Mormons believe that protestants are employed by the devil to deceive people.”

We know that this is not true, the devil would have to pay his Obamacare tax or provide an approved benefits package, pay increased withholding and would have to get an EPA approved scrubber for his furnace - and pay to convert it to clean-burning natural gas.

Then he’d have to make sure he has accommodations under ADA or risk being fined. Assuming he’s running a non-profit, he’ll have to file the appropriate forms to make sure there isn’t “excess” compensation provided to his executive team.

All in all, I think under the Obama regulatory regime, the devil would throw up his hands and give up in disgust at having been outdone.

[BlueDragon]

take that pearl/take that girl?

......

But there i was,
I was taken to a place
The hall of the mountain king.
I stood high upon a mountain top,
Naked to the world,
In front of
every kind of girl.
There was long ones, tall ones, short ones, brown ones, Black ones (no black one's in Joey's dream!) round ones, big ones, crazy ones.
Out of the middle
Came a lady.
She whispered in my ear
Something crazy.
She said,

Spill the wine, take that pearl.
Spill the wine, take that pearl.
Spill the wine, take that pearl.
Spill the wine, take that pearl."
I could feel hot flames of fire roaring at my back
As she disappeared,
But soon she returned.
In her hand was a bottle of wine,
In the other, a glass.
She poured some of the wine from the bottle into the glass
And raised it to her lips
And, just before she drank it,
She said,
Take the wine, take that girl.
Spill the wine, take that pearl.
Spill the wine, take that pearl.
Spill the wine, take that pearl."
Take that pearl, yeah.
...

[Elsie]

“Mormons believe that protestants are employed by the devil to deceive people.”

We know that this is not true...P>Then I'll change it to something that IS true:

MORMONism used to teach that protestant preachers are employed by the devil to deceive people.

[Elsie]

 

LUCIFER: If you will preach your orthodox religion to these people, and convert them, I will pay you well.

PROTESTANT MINISTER: I will do my best.

 

 

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon288.htm

[RFEngineer]

You have absolutely no sense of humor.

What do mormons have to say about that?

[Elsie]

What do mormons have to say about that?

They hate it.

(I guess)

---

 

 

JESUS: Hey Smith! Remember that boast you made about doing more than even I had done to hold the 'church' together?

JOSEPH SMITH: Where am I?

JESUS: Don't you remember? A few seconds ago you were in that jail.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah; but where am I NOW?

JESUS: Don't you remember? Does bang - bang ring a bell?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah - that crummy gun I had was about USELESS!

JESUS: I hope you left instructions on how to hold your church together.

JOSEPH SMITH: Dang! I knew there was SOMETHING I was forgetting!

JESUS: Looks like there's a power struggle going on down there.

JOSEPH SMITH: Yeah; there was always SOMEone who wanted the power that I held - especially over the LADIES - wink wink.

JESUS: No need to worry about that now; remember what my friend Matthew wrote down?

JOSEPH SMITH: This? “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven” (Matthew 22:30)

JESUS: That's it.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: Nah - it was right.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh well; it was fun while it lasted. My buds will still get it on with the girls.

JESUS: Uh; I'm sorry; in just a few more years; your followers will cavein to the United States government and abandon the 'Eternal Covenant' that you came up with.

JOSEPH SMITH: ME!? YOU are the one that told me to do that!

JESUS: Sorry; but you must have mistranslated what I told you. What part of Do NOT commit ADULTERY did you not understand?

JOSEPH SMITH: mumble....

JESUS: What did you say?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, nothing.

JESUS: Well; it was interesting talking to you; but now I must get back to perparing a place for those who believe in Me.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, yeah; the Celestial Kingdom.

JESUS: No...

JOSEPH SMITH: The Telestial one?

JESUS: Nope.

JOSEPH SMITH: SUREly not the TERRESTRIAL one!!

JESUS: Nope. Didn't you read that the mind of man had NOT conceived of it? Paul wrote it down in 1 Corinthians 2:9.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: No; it wasn't.

JOSEPH SMITH: You SURE?

JESUS: Yes. Now I must be going: what did you say your name was again?

JOSEPH SMITH: Joseph Smith.

JESUS: Hmmmm. According to my Heavenly FAITHbook, you didn't sign in as one of my friends - sorry, I never knew you.

JOSEPH SMITH: But....

[RFEngineer]

Too long. Can’t read.

COndense your humor, if that is what that was.

[Elsie]

Too long. Can’t read.

SURE you can!

Just try it!

Remember the skin effect: all the jokes flow on the outside of my wires.

[RFEngineer]

Brevity is the soul of wit.

[Elsie]

COndense your humor, if that is what that was.

Much of it must be induced.

[RFEngineer]

“Much of it must be induced.”

Or perhaps distilled or derived from such.