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even then end up with a fairly hazy feeling about the whole thing

Me, too.

There's some stuff in the Vatican II documents that I think is silly, including the opinion that "modern man" is somehow improved over the version we've always had. However, that is a statement of opinion, while the document of freedom of conscience is a statement of doctrine. If one believes the Council promulgated a doctrine - a statement on faith and morals, not pastoral practicalities - that is WRONG, that's a big problem.

I don't remember where I read that this was the sticking point for the SSPX, so I can't check it. I may be wrong.

Hi, the stuff of Dignitatis Humanae generally is way outside the scope and realm of my personal existence. For example, I have never been asked about it in the process of ordering a McChicken sandwich (as I am about to do now). So higher pay-grade Catholics will have to debate it as I satisfy my corporal hunger.

On the doctrinal vs. pastoral thing, it has always seemed to me (my opinion, worth nothing), that papal quotes supporting "pastoral" run at about a 10:1 advantage over those leaning toward doctrinal, or worse, infallible (which the Magisterium generally is not).

But one particular quote from Pope Paul VI in 1977 -- promulgator of Vatican II, a year before his death -- stands out in my mind although not specifically addressing the D vs. P debate:

“The tail of the devil is functioning in the disintegration of the Catholic world. The darkness of Satan has entered and spread throughout the Catholic Church even to its summit. Apostasy, the loss of the faith, is spreading throughout the world and into the highest levels within the Church.”

If anyone reading can prove that this quote is not authentic I would be most appreciative to hear of it.

Meanwhile, glad my only pressing decision at the moment is regular vs. spicy.