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To: narses

I disagree with a few things, history itself is only evidence of how things were done, it does not prove that it was done the way Jesus taught.

The verses below show that Jesus did not intend for the Apostles to start a hierarchy.

Mat 20:25
But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.

26
But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;

27
And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:

28
Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Also
Mat 23:5
But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

6
And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

7
And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

8
But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

10
Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

11
But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

12
And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.


There is no need to point out the hypocrisy in many of the Churches.

The people who followed the Apostles did it out of trust.

In view of what Jesus said, how could any real believer trust some one that had just the opposite attitude?


28 posted on 01/22/2013 9:32:36 AM PST by ravenwolf
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To: ravenwolf; Reaganite Republican; Clintons Are White Trash; HerrBlucher; mgist; raptor22; ...
The verses below show that Jesus did not intend for the Apostles to start a hierarchy.
Wrong. But nice try.
29 posted on 01/22/2013 5:28:14 PM PST by narses
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To: ravenwolf; Reaganite Republican; Clintons Are White Trash; HerrBlucher; mgist; raptor22; ...
The verses below show that Jesus did not intend for the Apostles to start a hierarchy.
Wrong. But nice try.
30 posted on 01/22/2013 5:28:43 PM PST by narses
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To: ravenwolf
The verses below show that Jesus did not intend for the Apostles to start a hierarchy.

Not sure how you get that out of those passages. "Whoever would be chief among you" sounds like it assumes the possibility of a "chief among you" which doesn't sound like complete egalitarianism to me. The whole passage is a warning against the misuse of authority, not a rejection of authority itself.

Besides, are you saying that the Apostles fumbled the ball when they, as St Paul writes, "appointed elders in every town" (cf Titus 1:5)?

31 posted on 01/22/2013 6:12:28 PM PST by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: ravenwolf
The Office of New Testament Priest
32 posted on 01/22/2013 7:46:29 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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