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To: Alamo-Girl; marron; HarleyD; metmom; CynicalBear; xzins; P-Marlowe
Certainly God's will is creative, e.g. "let there be light." But His will is also permissive, e.g. Satan's rebellion.... Truly, if God did not have a permissive will, this universe would look strongly deterministic.

Looks that way to me, too, dearest sister in Christ — God demonstrates both creative and permissive will; otherwise you're stuck with "hard" determinism.

RE: God's creative will — God Himself tells us in the Holy Scriptures that He made a "good," not a "perfect" creation. Had He made it "perfect," it would be "fully determined" and unable to change in any respect. Plus it would be senseless to speak of a "perfect" creation that contains evil — and difficult to avoid the conclusion that God Himself created the evil. And given the evil that we so clearly see playing out in the world — e.g., the Holocaust, Sandy Hook, etc., etc. — this would make God a monster. Which of course He is not.

Only the aspect of permissive will can give scope for human free will and human creativity. True, man can use his free will to choose evil, to turn away from God. But the point is evil enters the world through man, through his fallen sinful nature inherited from Adam, not through God's creative action. That is to say, God allows, but does not Himself create, Evil.

And it is also true, as you wrote: "But despite His permissive will, I aver that no one can thwart His creative will."

God's name is I AM!

Thank you ever so much, dear sister, for your eloquent essay/post!

572 posted on 01/30/2013 10:25:18 AM PST by betty boop (We are led to believe a lie when we see with, and not through the eye. — William Blake)
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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl; marron; HarleyD; metmom; CynicalBear; xzins; P-Marlowe
And given the evil that we so clearly see playing out in the world — e.g., the Holocaust, Sandy Hook, etc., etc. — this would make God a monster. Which of course He is not.

After the Holocaust, Sandy Hook, etc. the churches swell as people return to God for comfort and answers. I wouldn't so readily say this is a bad thing. In Amos 4 God tells us He bring calamity on people so that we will return to Him.

Now how can we argue with that when the evidence is so overwhelming.

582 posted on 01/30/2013 5:13:32 PM PST by HarleyD
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To: betty boop
Only the aspect of permissive will can give scope for human free will and human creativity. True, man can use his free will to choose evil, to turn away from God. But the point is evil enters the world through man, through his fallen sinful nature inherited from Adam, not through God's creative action. That is to say, God allows, but does not Himself create, Evil.

Indeed, dearest sister in Christ, thank you for sharing your insights!

588 posted on 01/30/2013 8:22:09 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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