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Childish behavior |
Posted on 01/16/2013 8:57:49 AM PST by marshmallow
General audience, Benedict XVI defines the Incarnation as "something unimaginable, the face of God can be seen, the process that began with Abraham is fulfilled." The Week of Prayer for Christian Unity, he asks "for the great gift" to "proclaim together that Jesus is the Savior of the world."
Vatican City (AsiaNews) - "The desire to know the face of God is in every man, even the atheists," but this desire is only realized by following Christ, in whom, in the Incarnation, "something unimaginable took place, the journey that began with Abraham is fulfilled. He is the Son, the fullness of all Revelation; the mediator who shows us the face of God. "
And "to proclaim together that Jesus is the Saviour of the world" Benedict XVI asked for incessant prayers for "the great gift" of Christian unity in the forthcoming week, which begins on the 18th of this month.
Previously, in his catechesis, he again reflected on the meaning of Christmas, in a commentary on John's Gospel in which the apostle Philip asks Jesus to show them the Father. The answer of Jesus, "introduces us to the heart of the Church's Christological faith; For the Lord says: "Whoever has seen me has seen the Father" (Jn 14:9).This expression summarizes the novelty of the New Testament, the novelty that appeared in the cave of Bethlehem: God can be seen, he showed his face is visible in Jesus Christ".
The theme of "seeking the face of God" is present throughout the Old Testament, so much so that the Hebrew term "face", occurs no less than 400 times, 100 of which refer to God." The of Jewish religion which the religion forbids all images, "for God can not be depicted," and "can not be reduced to an object," tells us that "God...
(Excerpt) Read more at asianews.it ...
And He wants all of every kind. Let’s not play word games to try to imply a meaning that isn’t there.
God didn't HAVE to look down on time. Time is not outside God. He CAN look into it at all points at once and see it all happening at once.
Are you a physicist?
If God had to look down the timeline to determine his elect, then one would have to conclude that at some point in time or eternity, God did not know who was going to choose him.
The time line runs in Him or through him so to speak. He doesn't have to look down into it to make any determinations, as if it's outside of Him.
Do you believe that God’s selection of you to follow him was based upon his looking into the future and discovering that you were going to follow him?
I'm sure there are going to be people who disagree with this, but I find it completely within the character of God to offer salvation to everyone on the planet. To bring each of them to the point of decision at least once in their lives, usually more, where they have the option of choosing to follow Him and accept the gift of eternal life He holds out and is holding out to mankind.
No man can come to God without Him calling first, but God constantly admonishes mankind to CHOOSE. Yes, He calls first. Jesus made it clear that no man can come to Christ without God calling or drawing Him.
However, then we're into the problem of whether that call can be resisted and that's where I believe it can be. He called me, drew me to Himself, gave plenty of reason to decide for Him but did not force me to do it.
Can God contemplate God's own decisions and directions prior to acting, and can God reject one direction He's contemplated in favor of another?
That gets into some very deep water.
I have already shown where you have said both. So it’s no surprise that people have to ask which do you believe. If you have stated both beliefs and they are contradictory it’s only natural that people would ask which belief it is that you are standing behind.
I need to go back to mindlessly ironing some shirts.......
Let's use the other Adam...
Do you believe that God ordained Jesus to be the Savior of the world?
Saying God did not ordained the events of Adam's fall is like saying God did not ordained our Lord's redemption.
Do you heat your iron on the fire or do you have one of them newfangled electric models?
Nope. Satan causes and instigates sin. God causes and instigates good but allows sin.
I need to go back to my income taxes-which is mindless. I’ll trade you. ;O)
>> “Can God contemplate God’s own decisions and directions prior to acting, and can God reject one direction He’s contemplated in favor of another?” <<
.
He declared the end from the beginning.
There is no doubt that the call can be resisted. Indeed, due to the nature of man the call is universally resisted. The question, however, is not whether or not God's universal call to salvation can be resisted, but what is the ultimate determining factor in those who eventually cease to resist that call and surrender body and soul to Christ?
Is it the free will of man, or the sovereign will of God?
I agree with that assessment. We then need to understand the statement of God as regards the “sins of the father down to the third and fourth generation”.
My choice is newfangled electric but I do have an old sadiron that I could heat on my newfangled gas stove.
Yes, but since he is not the Author of Sin, Adam & Eve's behavior was their own, and therefore, the sinful act was their own.
Jesus predicted Peter's denial, and it could have happened no other way, but He did not cause it. That was Peter's own decision.
God created the world destined to fall into sin, but God did not commit any of those sins. They had created beings acting secondarily to the actual creation itself, and those actors with free will committed the sins.
Therefore, God is not the Author of Sin.
How about before you ask me any more questions you answer the question I asked you in post 453.
I don't know that Scripture gives us that information.
However, define *free will*. There was a definition upthread than defined it as operating outside of the influence of God, which is not possible and so makes using that definition pointless.
but what is the ultimate determining factor in those who eventually cease to resist that call and surrender body and soul to Christ? Is it the free will of man, or the sovereign will of God?
For by grace are you saved through faith, and THAT not of yourselves....
I believe even our faith is a gift. (And especially so, since extraordinary faith is listed as a gift -- 1 Co 12-14)
At the same time "as many as received Him to them gave He power to become sons of God, even to those who believed on His name."
Receiving a gift is not active but is rather passive. One can take no credit for conceiving of the gift, offering the gift, designing the gift....anything at all about the gift.
That's why "Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness." Receiving/believing is passive and only stands to our credit because God has so decreed.
I think that I'd have to disagree with that.
*receiving* and *accepting* are actions, they are action verbs.
The gift can be given, left with you, legally transferred to you, but if you do nothing with it, actively accept it and avail yourself of it, it doesn't benefit you at all.
If that's the case, wouldn't that lend itself to people being saved who don't even know it? Or never show fruit of it?
How does someone force someone else to accept a gift?
Not so, my FRiend. In your lexicon, (check even Thayer's)it displays the different renderings of pas.
"1) individually
a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
2) collectively
a) SOME OF ALL TYPES
Please re-read the passage with "some of all types" inserted (the collective form) using this adjective (accusative, plural, masc.):
"...who desires some of all types (or insert 'every kind') of men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth, who gave Himself a ransom for some of all types (or insert 'every kind')."
No word games here. Your argument makes my point. But, to post the sentence, "...He wants all of every kind." is to mangle the lexicon and clearly overstate the text. Recall, we just want to let God tell us what He wants not juice it up to fit our pre-determined views. K?
Once again we would need to know what each understands as to the meaning of “free will”. It’s rather clear that man has a choice when called by God. God has said that He wills that “all” should come to belief. That indicates that “all” have been given an opportunity although perhaps not individually. We do know that there is condemnation because of ancestral sins such as the descendents of Esau and even to all the descendents of Adam. God does extend Grace to both the descendents of Adam and also of Esau but that is on an individual basis.
The sovereign will of God is that all come to Him but He has also given man the choice to decide as in the case of Adam. Free will does not mean that man is inclined, because of the inherited sin nature, to seek God. It does however mean that man does have a choice when called by God. There is no way with our finite minds we can totally understand either concept. It is however clear that we need to understand that sin comes from Satan and that God does in no way condone or cause sin. God through giving us the choice does allow sin and even uses the decision of man to sin in ways that will bring glory to Him.
>> what is the ultimate determining factor in those who eventually cease to resist that call and surrender body and soul to Christ?<<
We do know that at some point God just “gives them over to a reprobate mind”. That would indicate that those people did have the option at one point.
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