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To: roamer_1
Thanks for this discussion.

First, I don't think an inconclusive statement is the same as a weasel word. If the evidence is ambiguous, the proclamation, to accurately express the state of the evidence, needs be ambiguous in the same way. To force clarity on uncertain evidence would be the real error.

(A good principle to keep in mind for Bible translation,too.)

I don't know what textual evidence, if any,m exists prior to the 4th century. I'm not sure, though, whetherthe Pope relied on extual evidence. I think, for him, the lack of relics, or even any claim of relics --- considering the intense ongoing interest in objects of veneration --- seems to have been the clincher. Form earliest days, nobody even thought it was possible to have relics of Mary.

If they had, the forgers/bone-vendors would have been there as quick as you can say "Beatissima".

53 posted on 01/13/2013 10:20:02 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Takes one to know one, and vice versa.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
First, I don't think an inconclusive statement is the same as a weasel word. If the evidence is ambiguous, the proclamation, to accurately express the state of the evidence, needs be ambiguous in the same way. To force clarity on uncertain evidence would be the real error.

Perhaps 'weasel words' is a bit inflammatory... But the 'real error', as you put it, is in lending any credence whatsoever to what is basically a fairy tale, even with a statement as ambiguous as it is. You'll have to excuse me, but this is a pet peeve of mine: There are whole fields of doctrine... massive edifices... built upon what is the historical equivalent of a schoolyard rumor. This is *not* a sure foundation!

I don't know what textual evidence, if any,m exists prior to the 4th century.

I would highly recommend some research. Believing something just because everyone else does is not faith, it's herd mentality.

I'm not sure, though, whetherthe Pope relied on extual evidence. I think, for him, the lack of relics, or even any claim of relics --- considering the intense ongoing interest in objects of veneration --- seems to have been the clincher. Form earliest days, nobody even thought it was possible to have relics of Mary. If they had, the forgers/bone-vendors would have been there as quick as you can say "Beatissima".

LOL! That cannot be what one bases the assumption of Mary on! The LACK of evidence is evidence? This is PRECISELY why YHWH buried Moses where no one would find him - For this exact reason! This is why the serpent on the standard was destroyed! Can't you see? Perhaps in keeping with what He has done in the past, He saw fit to keep Mary from the gruesome desires of the bone diggers! Keep her from being paraded around piece-by-piece and lauded in front of vast crowds of idiots. Perhaps He meant to keep her from the DNA experts who would no doubt find some relation suitable to sit upon David's throne! But *NONE* of that points to assumption.

69 posted on 01/13/2013 1:25:21 PM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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