LOL! I dunno... The Rel Mod might find it to be an interesting new twist!
I am puzzled by your assertion that Yeshua/Jesus is the perfect "container" of the Law and the promises of Yahweh. Jesus is not a "container" at all:
In the same way that any of us are a container... This sack o' meat is not me. It is a mere husk on a seed (And it must be one heck of a big seed to judge from the meat-sack it is in... Just sayin :P ). And even the soul within is meant to be filled. The Seed is the seed, no matter if it is in His mother, or walking among men, or hanging on the cross, or planted in the ground. One may as well be bowing down to the earth for having once contained Him. Nay rather, Bow down to Him.
Thus the New Testament "Ark" or "container" would have to be someone who was overshadowed by the Glory of God and became the one to carry Jesus. Mary carried Jesus for 9 months. The analogy is wonderful.
Just because an analogy is wonderful does not make it true. Rainbows, flying unicorns farting skittles, and all that. Stuff that myths are made of.
St. Luke clearly wanted us to see Mary as the New Ark. Inspired by God, he parallels many of his verses with those used to describe the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Compare, for example, Luke's words with 2 Samuel 6
Yes, I am well aware that the RCC considers the Bible to be a big word-match game... Funny that they are willing to do that, but are so against 'Bible code' phenomena, which is basically word-search and crossword kinda slammed together. It is of little consequence to me, as I would much rather spend my time in the literal sense and in the concepts generated therein. And 'mariology' is not among them, to say the least. One must be cautious of twisting the Word - One can make it say any number of things with such cherry-picking. The Law makes for a very sure safety valve on such things.
In the Old Testament, the Ark of the Covenant, overshadowed by the the Spirit of God, was the instrument through which God came to dwell among men; in the New Testament, Mary, overshadowed by the Holy Spirit, is the instrument through which God came to dwell among men. She is the Ark of the New Covenant.
I would submit that there is no new covenant - it is a renewed covenant, as the Torah predicts. Melchizedek transcends Levi only because Melchizedek precedes Levi. If it were new, it would of a necessity be false. Folks tend to forget that YHWH's word does not return to Him empty, and every last jot and tittle will be done.
And here's a biggie: look carefully at Revelation 11:19-12:1. St. John tells us what he sees in Heaven: "And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars [this woman, we are told later in chapter 12, is the one who brought forth the man child who would rule over the nations, ie, Christ].
I do not see this the way you do - That there is an Ark goes without saying - everything on earth has it's counterpart in heaven. You are correct that the 'woman' passage is adjacent to the 'Ark' passage, but that does not mean that it requires a comparison - and even if it does, that does not mean the comparison is correct. One must shed the scales on Roman eyes to see it any differently: If one were to compare them because they are adjacent, what would the average Hebrew see therein?
what John says he saw is the Ark of the Covenant -- a woman.
No, that is hardly a provable scenario.
there is the Ark of the Covenant, lost for generations, in the Heavenly Temple!
again, for every object on earth there is it's counterpart in Heaven. The temple was made to resemble the abode of YHWH, as was the tabernacle. The Ark before Him is not the one which was here on earth.
[roamer_1:] Mary did not go before Israel in battle [...]
But Mary carried in her body, Him who went into battle.
You miss the point: The Ark itself went before the Israelites in battle. It was physically carried before them. It is not Mary being symbolized there. Mary was not leading them.
[roamer_1:] Mary is not the Mercy Seat of YHWH. [...]
No, she is the Ark of the New Covenant.. She HOLDS the Mercy Seat.
Oh, STOP! Let's think about it another way: Envision the Ark as a throne - the Shekinah Glory would sit upon it when YHWH was among His people... Who do you suppose sits upon it now? Mary? Because I have seen blasphemous artwork depicting exactly that.
After all, it is not the "container," which does these things, whether we're speaking of the Ark or of Mary. It is GOD who does these things.
See the meat-sack comments above.
Have a nice day.
Thanks for your quick and point-by-point response. I respect your gift of time and thought.
My first question is: what kind of church do you go to? (You may want to respond to this by PM because sometimes one's info is better shared where there is no risk of odd points being badly bandied in front of the FR peanut gallery.)
I ask this because I am wondering about your use of "Yeshua" and "Yahweh" --- which are of course correct as to Hebrew usage, often used by Messianic Jews, but generally not in frequent gentile usage. Some people find it an irritant to speak of "denominations," but I'm just looking for some kind of context to understand your point of view.
Second, where do you get this stuff about the "meat sack" not being you? Certainly you are your body. You are an embodied spirit--- or, equally true, an enspirited body. God willed you to be a complex being, consisting of a spiritual soul + a body, and neither is to be denigrated, both are honorable because both are, together, YOU, alive and complete in every detail, as God made you.
Genesis, and Psalms, are full of praises about the goodness of God's Creations, the material world, and his masterwork, the human person, body and soul. Our flesh has enduring value. Our bodies will rise immortal.
Christianity in general holds the body in honor: Ephesians 5:29 says "no one hates his own body, but nourishes and cherishes it".
Our bodies belong to God, are members of Christ (I Co 6:17) and temples of the Spirit, so we must glorify God in our bodies (vs 20).
Saint Paul called the resurrection "the redemption of the body" (Romans 8:23). It is but the completion of Christ's saving work, the perfection of our entire selves, soul and body.
God don't make junk. And frankly, it is demeaning to God and Man to call anybody's body just a meat-sack, whether you are talking about yourself, me, or Christ Our Lord.
Third, a discussion of types and foreshadowings is not a "big word-match game". Go through the 4 Gospels, and all the Epistles particularly Romans and Hebrews, and notice the Apostles' and Evangelists' very frequent reflections on the OT, which comprise multiple examples of word-matches, image-matches, parallels and prefigurings.
These things are neither games nor coincidences. As St. Augustine said: "In the Old Testament the New Testament is concealed; in the New Testament the Old Testament is revealed." His insight is based on Scripture itself:
a wisdom which is hidden,
which God ordained before the world,
unto our glory:
Which none of the princes of this world knew;
for if they had known it,
they would never have crucified the Lord of glory.
(1 Corinthians 2:7-8)
This "connecting the dots" is the very way we look for prefiguring, and by "we" I don't just mean Catholics, I mean Orthodox, Protestant, Evangelical, any sort of Christians who --- like the noble Bereans --- check things out by searching out congruences between the Old Covenant and the New.
I appreciate your perseverance in "reasonable discussion," something which might even make the Religion Mod smile :o)
May God bless you, roamer.