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To: CTrent1564
Yes we understand that Rome long ago conflated some early respect given that bishopric for some of it's timely assistance, to become something not otherwise in THE LEAST accepted by the rest.

The church of Rome wasn't yielded to on a regular basism in later centuries. The history is spotty. Other bishops had their days or moments of great influence, too.

86 posted on 12/17/2012 8:15:43 PM PST by BlueDragon ( recalled with approval: in essentials, unity; in doubtful matters, liberty; in all things, charity)
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To: BlueDragon

BlueDragon:

Ok, so you are now baiting and switching. Implicitly, you have no answer to Prof. Chadwick [Anglican Church History scholar]. Pelikan [Lutheran at the time of his work on Church History-Scholar nor P. Schaff [German-Swiss Reformed Church History Scholar] all whose scholarly work concludes that Peter [and Paul] were both martyred at Rome.

Rome’s influence on Church Councils extended well beyond the Council of Chalcedon in 451 AD [which is some 360 years are so after the death of the Apostle John]. You can try and kid yourself and deny that fact, which doesn’t surprise me. the 3rd Council of Constantinopile was heavily directed by Pope Agatho, the 2nd Council of Nicea was directed by Pope Adrian I’s personal legates and dealt with the Inconoclastic heresy which had started in the East. So that gets you to the 8th century and these last 2 councils were the last 2 that dealt with Christological heresies, Monothelite [2 Wills of Christ vs. one Will] and Inconoclastic heresy which was seen as an attack on the orthodox understanding of Incarnational theology. On all those up to 2nd Nicea, the Bishop of Rome was instrumental and gave the definitive acceptance to the Councils for the entire Catholic Church.

So “We” whoever “we is” seems to think at some point, Rome which was the bedrock of Orthodoxy [as Pelikan, while he was a Lutheran acknowledges in his work as I noted before, see page 354 of his Volume 1 of the Christian Tradition] was no longer the bedrock. At what point in time did that happen and who made the decision to say that Rome fell from Orthodoxy and for those who make such claims, on what authority do they make such claims and how do their views reconcile with the continuity of the Catholic Faith from Christ, via the Apostles, via the 1st/2nd Century Apostolic Fathers, via the pre-Nicene Church Fathers, via the later 4th and 5th century Church Fathers [Ambrose, Hilliary of Potiers, Augustine, Jerome, Pope Leo the Great] up to the Councils of 3 Constantinopile in 680-81AD and 2nd Nicea in 787AD.


87 posted on 12/17/2012 8:46:41 PM PST by CTrent1564
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