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Why are some denominations/churches changing their bylaws on gay marriage (Or drinking, smoking...
12/10/2012 | Laissez-Faire Capitalist

Posted on 12/10/2012 9:27:44 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist

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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

What might be more insane than a faith actually changing the definition of marriage to include ‘gay marriage’ is to then only conduct same sex marriages if the state gives its permission. “Sorry Steve and Bill, our faith says it’s fine for you to get married, but our state still doesn’t, so no dice, fellas.”

Freegards


81 posted on 12/10/2012 11:46:48 AM PST by Ransomed
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To: laweeks

Yeah, it’s exactly because the Catholic Church has caved on everything that it and it alone is the object of the Obama attack on religious liberty.

They are the only one’s still standing on the fundamental nature of sexuality, on divorce, on homosexuality: sex is about babies and the lifelong commitment of parents of babies.

But by the time you notice, it will be too late for you.

Lotsa people who call themselves Catholics have indeed caved. They’ll run like rats when it begins to cost something to stand up for traditional sexuality. But the ones who are left, a small fraction of those who claim to be Catholic, the ones who are left will stand firm.


82 posted on 12/10/2012 11:51:00 AM PST by Houghton M.
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To: laweeks

Vatican II changed none of the things you mention. All of them were changed after Vatican II.

Get your facts right first, then complain.


83 posted on 12/10/2012 11:54:25 AM PST by Houghton M.
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To: bramps
Churches have enough of a struggle getting people thru the door without also having to deal with biblically unfounded opinions...

A "church" preoccupied with "getting people thru the doors" at any cost has much bigger problems than the types of music they choose to worship with.

84 posted on 12/10/2012 11:57:05 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: fwdude

I help lead our early, contemporary service. I actually prefer the traditional service, and would love it if it were at 8:30. I believe it is probably fair to say that the form of worshiop has changed a lot since New Testament times. That is not inherently a bad thing. In fact, “shaking things up” a bit can keep our worship fresh rather than being mechanical. As long as the focus is on the worship of God, and not centering things on ourselves, I am ok with it.


85 posted on 12/10/2012 11:57:51 AM PST by NCLaw441
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Post number 6 about catholicism to cover up the decline of protestatism in this thread. Odd that.

Really, it’s stunning. If you want a church that isn’t going to capitulate on this issue, you know where to go.


86 posted on 12/10/2012 11:59:17 AM PST by JCBreckenridge (Texas is a state of mind. - John Steinbeck :))
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd

You posted: Churches that change with the times aren’t Churches at all.
***
I disagree with you on that. There are certainly bedrock principles and sacraments (communion, for example) that need to remain, but I suspect that few of us would feel comfortable with worship as practiced, for example, in Ephesus in the first century.


87 posted on 12/10/2012 12:00:13 PM PST by NCLaw441
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Your libertarian pro-homo boundries for the discussion are stupid. People can say what ever they want to say regarding what you claim is “tolerance” and embracing of sodomy in their churches. Christians can do and say what they want about their own religion and churches. You worry about your own and mind your own freaking business like a good free man would do recogonizing religous freedom in this country.


88 posted on 12/10/2012 12:05:40 PM PST by SaraJohnson
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To: laweeks

Yet, it’s the Catholic church that remains firm on this issue while all these protestant churches blow in the wind. Why is this?


89 posted on 12/10/2012 12:05:51 PM PST by JCBreckenridge (Texas is a state of mind. - John Steinbeck :))
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To: NCLaw441

My point is that the changes are so disruptive that they now require two different “types” of services. It’s disheartening to see that the “new music” has introduced a level of schism in a church body.


90 posted on 12/10/2012 12:05:51 PM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: JCBreckenridge; metmom
Yet, it’s the Catholic church that remains firm on this issue

Yet we keep hearing, on FR no less, that the Catholic Church ordains and keeps homosexual priests in the fold. Why is this?

91 posted on 12/10/2012 12:10:26 PM PST by Gamecock ( If we distort the gospel, that distortion will influence and affect everything else that we believe)
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To: roamer_1

“non-denominational spirit-filled variety that have no ‘confession’, but are only and very insistently Bible concentric”

No Nicene Creed?

“very insistently Bible concentric”,

So what’s stopping them from accepting one sans Romans 1?

“The smaller churches with a congregational structure tend to be more adept at removing heresies by utter collapse”

Nonsense. The congregationalists have no formal structure and they are on this list along with the UMC, Episcopalians, etc.


92 posted on 12/10/2012 12:11:28 PM PST by JCBreckenridge (Texas is a state of mind. - John Steinbeck :))
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To: NCLaw441
... but I suspect that few of us would feel comfortable with worship as practiced, for example, in Ephesus in the first century.

Other than the language barrier, what, exactly, do you think would make you uncomfortable in such a primitive Christian setting?

93 posted on 12/10/2012 12:13:54 PM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
Take your choice:

Noun: cowardice
1. The trait of lacking courage

Noun: appeasement
1. The act of appeasing (as by acceding to the demands of)
2. Political policy of trying to pacify a hostile country, e.g. by granting concessions

94 posted on 12/10/2012 12:15:38 PM PST by tomkat
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To: fwdude

I do see that problem. Our two services, if combined into one, and all attended, would overflow either the sanctuary or the fellowship hall (we have a service in each). Not seeing all of my fellow church members each Sunday is the one thing I dislike about having two services. That is probably unavoidable.

But we have children’s time during each of our services, and that is a different form of worship, but worship nevertheless for the children (and I usually get something from it, too!).

Church organs did not always exist (nor air conditioning, etc.) but we “made room” for them. For me, the essence of worship is time for: acknowledgment that God is God; praise of God; prayer to God giving thanks and interceding for others; giving our tithes and offerings to God; hearing God’s word; receiving a blessing as we head back out into “the world.”

But that’s just me.


95 posted on 12/10/2012 12:15:48 PM PST by NCLaw441
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To: Brookhaven
If you want to argue about today--fine.

Uh, I believe that is what I was doing. I can't very well lecture those who are dead for hundreds of years.

96 posted on 12/10/2012 12:16:52 PM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Gamecock

“Yet we keep hearing, on FR no less, that the Catholic Church ordains and keeps homosexual priests in the fold. Why is this?”

1, do you concede that the Catholic church does teach that homosexuality is sinful, unlike the churches mentioned in this article? Yes or no?

Answer this, and I’ll be happy to answer your question.


97 posted on 12/10/2012 12:17:35 PM PST by JCBreckenridge (Texas is a state of mind. - John Steinbeck :))
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To: fwdude

I am used to stained glass, certain hymns, a consistent place to meet, a certain order of worship, etc. When I see “comfortable” I mean consistent with what we are used to. I did not mean to denigrate first century worship, only to suggest that it was different from what we have today...


98 posted on 12/10/2012 12:18:59 PM PST by NCLaw441
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To: JCBreckenridge
... do you concede that the Catholic church does teach that homosexuality is sinful, unlike the churches mentioned in this article? Yes or no?

There are a host of practicing priests who are all in for the homosexual agenda, and yet they remain priests. This is complicit consent by the RCC.

99 posted on 12/10/2012 12:24:38 PM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd

Jesus drank wine that is true but he was not a blind stinking drunk.

Some churches allow alcohol but do frown on being an alcoholic.

I have to believe some churches ban it all together because they have to deal with alcoholics and it is just easier for the members.


100 posted on 12/10/2012 12:25:36 PM PST by Morgana (Time to play cowboys and muslims.)
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