Posted on 12/08/2012 2:24:39 PM PST by NYer
We are no longer under the Old Covenant..We are under the "new and everlasting Covenant" instituted by Christ
The old Testament and its laws and practices were pointing us to Christ, they are ALL fulfilled in Christ.. they ALL point to Christ... not his mother
Wrong.He was not including Mary in those writings. Here is what Blessed Ambrose said when he was speaking of Mary
"Mary, a Virgin not only undefiled but a Virgin whom grace has made inviolate, free of every stain of sin." (Commentary on Psalm 118, 22, 30; Jurgens, II, 166)
"What is greater than the Mother of God? What more glorious than she whom Glory Itself chose? What more chaste than she who bore a body without contact with another body?" (Virginity, II, 6; NPNF 2, Vol. X, 374)
Augustine himself did not hold to a "sinless" Mary....
Wrong again. Here is what Blessed Augustine says when he is actually writing about Mary...
"We must except the holy Virgin Mary, concerning whom I wish to raise no question when it touches the subject of sins, out of honour to the Lord; for from Him we know what abundance of grace for overcoming sin in every particular was conferred upon her who had the merit to conceive and bear Him who undoubtedly had no sin'.-Augustine (A Treatise on Nature and Grace, chapter 42 [XXXVI]; NPNF 1, Vol. V)
We have been through these debates before with the same claims that are proven to be untrue when one looks deeper
I wish you a Blessed day!
Thanks!
And thanks to the holy fathers for QUOTING from the NT so many times!
It is WRITTEN indeed!!!
Too bad it could not keep it's OWN 'tradition' in line!
Salvation, you are very RIGHT on this. Since Protestantism is predicated upon an appeal to reason rather than Faith, lets look at this in a reasoned manner. All of those present at the first Pentecost, and those converted and baptized by them were adamant about a priesthood, an episcopacy and a diaconate. The Early Church Fathers and the churches they established all held to a visible Church, under the Bishop of Rome, served by a dedicated priesthood. No reasonable person would believe that the Holy Spirit would remain silent and let the infant Church remain in error for the 350 years from the Death and Resurrection until the setting of Canon and then for another 1,200+ years until it was discovered within the Canonized writings by those openly hostile to the Church and its priesthood.
The human capacity for self deceit is boundless, especially when it serves ones ego. That was certainly true of the "Reformers" and their modern day followers. Hold to the truth because God Himself is Truth.
Peace be with you.
SURE he was!
But; as a Pharisee of Pharisees....
"A learned mamzer takes precedence over an ignorant High Priest."
Bless you for your diligent scholarship. Too many, seeking to prove themselves right rather than finding the truth, follow the pattern of stopping their research the moment they find what they think supports their position. Unfortunately, their "Googlesterium" only helps to serve their vanities, not the truth.
Peace be with you.
Tell me where scripture says Mary was sinless
This statement, standing alone, is incomplete.
Paul had VAST knowledge - just not of the Savior and His plans.
Remember that he studied at the feet of Gamiel?
Remember what Festus said to him?
WHAT???
PAIR-bonding???
What do you silly Gentiles know???
Big deal!!
It ain't as NEW and as EVERLASTING as OURS!!!!
58 Now, as touching the law of the apriesthood, there are many things pertaining thereunto.
59 Verily, if a man be called of my Father, as was aAaron, by mine own voice, and by the voice of him that bsent me, and I have endowed him with the ckeys of the power of this priesthood, if he do anything in my name, and according to my law and by my word, he will not commit dsin, and I will justify him.
60 Let no one, therefore, set on my servant Joseph; for I will justify him; for he shall do the sacrifice which I require at his hands for his transgressions, saith the Lord your God.
61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthoodif any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse aanother, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.
62 And if he have aten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.
63 But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to amultiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be bglorified.
64 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things, then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law.
65 Therefore, it shall be lawful in me, if she receive not this law, for him to receive all things whatsoever I, the Lord his God, will give unto him, because she did not believe and administer unto him according to my word; and she then becomes the transgressor; and he is exempt from the law of Sarah, who administered unto Abraham according to the law when I commanded Abraham to take aHagar to wife.
66 And now, as pertaining to this law, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will reveal more unto you, hereafter; therefore, let this suffice for the present. Behold, I am Alpha and Omega. Amen.
Circular logic will always keep on rolling down the road...
HMMmm...
I have doubts...
Damned BIBLE!!!!
ALL have sinned and come short of the Glory of GOD.
If you hold your bible upside down;
look at it in a mirror;
then read it backwards;
you’ll find that Romans 3:23 says so.
They WERE??
ALL of them?
Rasmussen & Zogby could learn a few things!
Come; let us reason together.
Isaiah 1:18
...and Paul, as his custom was, went in unto them, and for three sabbath days reasoned with them from the Scriptures
Acts 17:2
If you read the rest of Acts 17 you will see just how ineffective all of that reasoning actually was.
Peace be with you.
Relying upon theologians from the 4th century and onwards?
When we "look deeper" what do we see but imputed grace to exist there, before the later infused grace?
What is sin, but a falling short of the Law (Torah). What is Torah but the letter? But the letter is not the fulfillment of the law, nor either is it's origin.
...speaking of "thinking deeper" [ahem].
So?
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