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To: sakic

Truthfully I do not know that much about Martin Luther’s ideas, and I do feel sincerely terrible that you would have this opinion of him and thereby Christians.

I agree with you that many horrible things have been done in the name of Christianity- but we can expect that from reading the Bible.

Many horrible things are done in the name of “God”.

I agree with you that many lazy people do not understand God, but that is not exclusive to any group or denomination.

People are lazy against God.

I do promise you that I will look up Martin Luther and study this, that you say, and pray about.

I love Jewish people and Judaism and Israel, and I would never kill of them. The violence against Jews , by Nazis has always been a heavy pain in my heart since I was a small child. I can understand that passion that you feel, and I am honestly sorry that you have this pain over Martin Luther.

I do believe God has a purpose for all things under the sun, even the most horrific and painful and seemingly insensible of things.


114 posted on 12/08/2012 6:34:23 AM PST by Truth2012
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To: Truth2012

I truly appreciate your comments because they are so clearly heartfelt.

As I have stated earlier, my problem is not with Christianity or any other religion. People sometimes do evil things and cloak themselves in their religion.

There are some Jews who do the same thing. I feel no more compassion for them than I do for the others.

The reason this is such a hot button for me is that both my parents went through the Holocaust. My father was in seven concentration camps. His parents were murdered. My mother escaped Many on the Kindertransport. All of her siblings and her parents were murdered.

Thanks again for your words.


115 posted on 12/08/2012 6:48:47 AM PST by sakic
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To: Truth2012
This is a helpful site to understand Martin Luther's views about the Jewish people vs. the Jewish religion:

http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/search?q=luther+and+jews

In it the author states:

    Luther was not technically an anti-Semite. He had nothing against Jews as “Jews.” He had something against their religion because he believed it denied and blasphemed Christ. In other words, his position against them was theological, not biological. As proof, Luther had no objections to integrating converted Jews into Christian society- a true anti-Semite on the other hand, simply hates Jews for being Jews.

    Rather than being motivated by biological factors, Luther’s criticisms were motivated by theological concerns. Luther directed intensely abusive language against Anabaptists, lawyers, the papacy, and the Jews. Luther felt these groups were united in the conviction that men were ultimately made right before God by the law. Anabaptism held a moralistic view of the gospel with an emphasis on the heavy burden of righteousness placed upon men in order to be accepted before God. Lawyers made their living by imposing the law. The papacy was viewed as the antichrist, which promoted a false religion with a false view of salvation through obedience to the law. The Jews had a religion based upon works righteousness. When Luther attacked these groups, he felt he was attacking the devil- the underlying spirit of works righteousness.

    In the last years of Luther’s life, he came to believe all the popular slanderous myths about the Jews- and I think this may have been the result of the reports of proselytizing he was receiving, as well as his frustration in converting any of them, combined with cultural prejudice that is inherent in sinful humanity. By any means possible, he wanted works righteousness groups removed for the sake of the gospel. When Luther picked an enemy, no amount of rhetoric would stop him from making his case.

    Here though we can fault Luther theologically. He violated his own principle of the Theology of the cross. The Theology of the cross places the Christian as the enemy of society- the gospel is trampled and scorned by the world and by those in power. In its weakness and foolishness though, the Theology of the cross knows the gospel is actually strength. The Theology of the cross expects a life of suffering. It expects to be attacked and assailed. It expects these things because this is what happened to Christ. Using force to drive away one’s enemies in the name of the gospel is the work of a theology of glory. It is using power and might instead of using weakness and suffering.

The important thing to remember, though, is that:

    Generally speaking, we Reformed disagree with Luther on particular things, but still find him to be a man of great abilities, and appreciate his stand against the Roman Catholic Church- so you won’t find many detailed discussions delving into his flaws and sins. We know he was a sinner. We know he had glaring faults. But we also know sola scriptura and sola fide are not true or false depending on how evil or perfect Luther was. They are true because God has spoken in His Word.

123 posted on 12/08/2012 4:40:10 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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