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To: boatbums
I asked a simple question which has nothing whatsoever to do with which form of contraception is in use. It has nothing to do with whether people as individuals want to limit the size of their families. It has nothing to do with whether or not current convenience doctrine teaches that it's between God and the individual whether to get a tramp stamp and have yourself sterilized, either.

It's very simply a question of how can non-Catholics who claim to be led only by Scripture and the Holy Spirit preach something as truth yesterday and the exact opposite today. At one time, either yesterday or today, they were not being led by Scripture and the Holy Spirit. It's that simple and that obvious no matter how the infallible interpreters of what Scripture they don't throw out try to obscure and avoid the question.

I ask again, were those folks who preached that contraception was a sin being led by the Holy Spirit and Scripture when they were preaching that doctrine or are they being led by the Holy Spirit and the Scripture now that they preach the exact opposite?

314 posted on 11/25/2012 5:05:47 PM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Rashputin
It's very simply a question of how can non-Catholics who claim to be led only by Scripture and the Holy Spirit preach something as truth yesterday and the exact opposite today. At one time, either yesterday or today, they were not being led by Scripture and the Holy Spirit. It's that simple and that obvious no matter how the infallible interpreters of what Scripture they don't throw out try to obscure and avoid the question.

I'll give you a simple answer even though I doubt it will be adequate. I'm sure you are familiar with the saying attributed to Augustine that says: It the major things - UNITY, in the minor things - LIBERTY, in all things - CHARITY (LOVE). The doctrines, the central tenets that make up what it even means to BE a Christian, are to be held by Christians and are spelled out clearly in Scripture. In areas that are not specifically spelled out in Scripture, there is liberty, meaning that what a person decides to believe about certain things is between him and God. For someone to say the Holy Spirit "led" him to deny the deity of Jesus Christ, for example, I think we can universally agree that the Holy Spirit would NOT be who is leading that person. On the other hand, if I want to go to an "R" rated movie, is that something the Bible says is a central tenet of the Christian faith? No, but I can be led to discern what is right or wrong for me in areas not spelled out in the Bible and, if I have dedicated my life to following Christ, I will be open to the leading of the Holy Spirit in those areas that affect my life. What might be wrong for me, may be right for someone else. But, again, I'm talking about those "gray" areas - NOT the doctrines of the Christian faith.

In the history of the Roman Catholic Church there are even examples where the hierarchy stated something was to be believed but then changed it later on. So, were they being led by the Holy Spirit to make those declarations and were they wrong to do so when they then changed their beliefs?

I ask again, were those folks who preached that contraception was a sin being led by the Holy Spirit and Scripture when they were preaching that doctrine or are they being led by the Holy Spirit and the Scripture now that they preach the exact opposite?

What you should really be asking is whether or not the Holy Spirit was even called upon by those "folks" to come to their decision about contraception. Not every church out there relies upon Him to formulate their statements of faith and I hardly think most churches even have a "plank" that addresses what they think everyone in their church MUST believe about the issue. Though the Roman Catholic Church does, how many of the "faithful" even follow it? Do you think that there just might be certain areas that even Catholics think the "church" has no business telling them what to do?

On the basic, fundamental doctrines to be believed in order to BE a Christian, yes, there MUST be unity and there IS though there is even disagreement on the explanations of some of them (i.e., salvation by faith apart from works). Where churches wander away from these tenets, they cease being Christian in God's eyes. So, no, a person is wrong to state the Holy Spirit is leading them to forsake the Scripturally defined doctrines of the faith because the Holy Spirit wouldn't do that - truth is absolute.

318 posted on 11/25/2012 6:01:09 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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