Posted on 11/15/2012 8:27:56 AM PST by DaveMSmith
The core topic is whether we are expected to understand Scripture or not, and how each of us is affected by the particular lens through which we view Scripture.
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Did Emanuel Swedenborg Influence LDS Doctrine?
by Craig Miller[1]
Craig Miller is LDS.
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Born in Sweden in 1688, Emanuel Swedenborg claims that at the age of 57 he was visited by the Savior and commanded to write the inner meaning of the scriptures and to explain life awaiting man after the death of the physical body. He claims to have been a citizen of both the physical and the spiritual world for approximately 27 years[2], conversing with angels on a daily basis. The Swedish mystic wrote thousands of pages explaining what he learned from angels and inspired insights into the scriptures and claims that he wrote only as the Lord directed. Emanuel Swedenborg=s teachings, discussed later in more detail, are startlingly recognizable to the student of LDS theology. For example, he taught that there are three heavens, the celestial being the most inward and refined. There are three levels within the celestial Aglory@ and marriage for all eternity is an absolute requirement for entry into the highest of these heavens. He witnessed a marriage in heaven and stated that the husband was arrayed in the priesthood robes of Aaron and the wife wore apparel suggestive of a queen with a crown on her head. Large portions of what many consider to be unique teachings of the LDS Church are found in the Swedish mystic=s writings. Nevertheless he is not a mirror of all LDS teachings since, for instance, he taught that God the Father, Christ, and the Holy Ghost are a single individual; concepts about a pre-mortal existence are a misunderstanding; and that our Lord did not make any payment for our sins on the cross; among other things. Swedenborg shows us that God has his hand in many aspects of human history and is mindful of more than just his LDS children. Few LDS know of Emanuel Swedenborg, let alone his teachings, so that he seems nearly invisible in LDS writings and study. Perhaps we should heed the Doctrine and Covenants exhortation to Aseek ye diligently and teach one another words of wisdom; yea, seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom.@[3] My study of the Writings[4] has enriched my understanding of the gospel and its importance for mankind. From my own observations of his teachings I believe that the study of Swedenborg=s writings can help solve some of life=s knotty problems. (clip)
How LDS Teachings Compare with Swedenborg The similarities between LDS doctrine and Swedenborg=s teachings are striking - and impossible for me to imagine as mere coincidences. Likewise, the differences are also just as outstanding and cause me to wonder how the similarities can coexist with such marked differences. I list here some similarities which include a few ideas which are embraced by both Swedenborg and the LDS religion but which are far from a comprehensive list. Volumes could be written about each topic and how they compare. I will leave to the theologians of both the LDS Church and New Churches[6] the in-depth examination of these concepts. The majority of my citations are from Heaven and Hell, Swedenborg=s most popular work.[7] Swedenborg numbered paragraphs in his writing so that no matter in what format they might be published, readers could follow the same numbering scheme. In his own works his references are always listed in this fashion. I have also adopted this system for the references to Swedenborg=s works. Other works are referred to by page number. Scriptures, LDS or otherwise, use standard scriptural notation. Vocabulary differences between Swedenborgian writings and LDS scriptures should also be noted. In Swedenborg=s writings Mormons should generally substitute the word Aperdition@ for Ahell@ to understand the proper context. The Aspirit world,@ for Swedenborgians, includes perdition, heaven, and a realm of more-or-less recently departed spirits while the term Aworld of spirits@ in Swedenborg=s Writings refers to an intermediate realm between heaven and hell for the relatively recently deceased. Since Aworld of spirits@ can be understood by both an LDS or Swedenborgian reader, this term is used throughout the text. **************************************************************************************************************** Unique Similarities In the entire congregation of all historical Christian theologians the following similarities, according to the understanding of the author, are only found in the LDS religious tradition and the teachings of Emanuel Swedenborg. One such similarity would be an interesting coincidence, two completely unexpected, three a practical impossibility, and four a strong indication that there is something much more to the similarities than mere chance. An analogy might be that a unique gene in two otherwise very dissimilar individuals may still be an indication that common ancestry is a either a high probability or an absolute certainty. 1. There are three heavens (D&C 76, Heaven and Hell chapter 5). Swedenborg divided the heavens into three: celestial, spiritual, and natural, with divisions so absolute that direct communication is generally not possible without divine help. Those of lower heavens in general cannot see the inhabitants of the higher heavens. Communication does occur between higher and lower realms, but those of the lower heavens are, in general, not so aware of its occurrence. The communication originates from what Swedenborg calls Acorrespondences,@ which are in the nature of the relationship of a symbol or allegory and which are a central feature of all creation, providing the means by which higher or more inner degrees of reality, beginning with God Himself, are related, typically in cause and effect fashion, to lower, more external degrees. The LDS parallel of Swedenborg=s heavens are the celestial, terrestrial, and telestial heavens. Swedenborg=s terms for the heavens are all biblical, and can be found in the scriptures that Mormons believe refer to these heavens, 1 Cor 15:40-42.[8] The counterpart of Swedenborg=s spiritual heaven is the LDS terrestrial heaven, which despite its name, is not depicted as being earthlike in LDS scripture. To describe the lowest of the heavens Joseph Smith invented a new term, telestial. Swedenborg stated that the heavens were arranged in layers around the central Sun of heaven, or the Lord God Jesus Christ. The natural heaven is the furthest from the center. 2. Priesthood robes are worn in heavenly marriage ceremonies. Swedenborg witnessed a marriage ceremony in heaven in which the husband wore robes like those of Aaron while the wife was arrayed as a queen. (D&C 131:2, Conjugial Love 20, 21). LDS doctrine mostly speaks of two orders of the priesthood, the Melchizedek and Aaronic, but also speaks of the patriarchal order as another order of the priesthood (D&C 132). Swedenborg=s description of the attire of the heavenly couple in the marriage ceremony of Cojugial Love 21 will strike a chord with all Mormons who have witnessed a temple marriage.[9] 3. There are three heavens in the celestial glory or kingdom (D&C 131:1, Arcana Coelestia 9993). Swedenborg states that there are three heavens, the celestial, spiritual and natural, and two kingdoms of heaven, the celestial and the spiritual. The organizational relationship between the three heavens and two kingdoms is complex and has long been a source of discussion among students of Swedenborg. In Arcana Coelestia 9993 [2], Swedenborg states that the celestial kingdom has three divisions, and also stated in Arcana Coelestia 5922 [2] that the celestial kingdom is the celestial heaven. Through the Lord=s direction and by means of angels that communicate between them they act in unison. Mormons understand D&C 131:1 to mean that the celestial heaven, Aglory@ in D&C 131:1, is divided into three heavens. Swedenborg also used the word Aglory@ to refer to kingdoms, Arcana Coelestia 5922 [2]. While, again, the exact interpretation of the three heavens-two kingdoms distinction remains a matter of discussion in the New Church, the parallels with LDS doctrine are still obvious. 4. You must be married in heaven to inherit the highest heaven (D&C 131:2, Conjugial Love 54(5), 155). Monogamy is central, according to Swedenborg, to all of heaven, although there are a few exceptions, such as sincere celibates and some Islamics in polygamous relationships, who live at the fringes or Aside@ of the lower heavens. Marriage mimics (or, in Swedenborg=s term and concept, Acorresponds to@) the relationship between God and His Church since their ultimate destiny is approach unity. Again, Swedenborg states that an absolute requirement to inherit the highest heaven is heterosexual marriage. Marriage, according to Swedenborg, means the separate minds of man and wife become so closely spiritually linked that they become one mind (and married couples in heaven, seen from a distance, may appear on occasion as one individual). The Doctrine and Covenants simply states that the highest heaven in the celestial glory cannot be attained without eternal marriage (D&C 132:2). Without eternal marriage men and women cannot be fulfill the purpose of their creation or reach the highest degree of spiritual attainment which is possible for them, or in Swedenborg=s words, cannot approach the Lord (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol.3, p.333, Conjugial Love 155). Swedenborg saw married partners in heaven as being two halves of good and truth or love and wisdom. The unity of these two is fundamental to creation, the husband bringing wisdom externally and love internally and the wife bringing love externally and wisdom internally to the union. LDS ideas aren=t so specific but similar concepts are hinted at in the temple. 5. The world of spirits is a place of preparation for either heaven or perdition (Alma 12:24, 34:32-34, 40:21, Heaven and Hell 421, 422). Both LDS doctrine and Swedenborg state that the world of spirits is the portal through which all mankind passes on to prepare for either heaven or perdition. This idea is distinct from the Catholic idea of purgatory in which only the righteous go who are destined for heaven. Purgatory is also seen as a place of punishment. Most of Christianity rejects the idea of purgatory, or a spiritual abode separate from heaven or hell, as being non-scriptural. Swedenborg taught that for newly arrived spirits, the world of spirits is nearly identical to this one. LDS doctrine refers to the world of spirits as a continuation of this life where men make decisions about their eternal outcome and eventually inherit one of the three heavens or perdition (Alma 12:24, Alma 34:32-34 where Athis life@ is taken to extend into the world of spirit). This is echoed in Swedenborg=s teachings as well, but for Swedenborg the ultimate fate of the soul is determined by the individual=s Aruling love,@ or basic spiritual orientation toward good or evil, at the time of passing from mortality (Heaven and Hell 427). LDS doctrine states that men are not only judged by their actions, but the desires of their heart (Alma 41:3, Helaman 14:29-31, Mosiah 2:34-39; Doctrine and Covenants 137:9) . The LDS concept of the world of spirits allows a wide range of choice for those who have never encountered true principles during their lifetime. Mormons believe that a person may remain in the world of spirits for hundreds or thousands of years while Swedenborg generally limits this time of preparation to a mere thirty years (1 Peter 3:18-20, Heaven and Hell 426. It might be noted that Swedenborg teaches that there was an exception to the thirty year rule in past history, at a time when there existed Afalse heavens,@ realms created in the spirit world which trap those who would otherwise progress to heaven or perdition, but that these were eliminated at the time of the Last Judgment, which Swedenborg states occurred in the year 1757 (Last Judgement 64). LDS teachers indicate that repentance is much easier in the physical realms than in the world of spirits while Swedenborg indicates that it is impossible anywhere but the physical existance (Journal of Discourses 3:230 and 3:371, Heaven and Hell 480). 6. There are angels who communicate between heavens (Doctrine and Covenants 76:86-88, Heaven and Hell 27, 35). Swedenborg states that higher heavens communicate with lower ones through intermediary angels and through correspondence (Heaven and Hell 35, 88). Swedenborg=s description of angelic communication between heavens is fascinating, Aas is often done, angels are raised up by the Lord out of a lower heaven into a higher that they may behold its glory; for then they are prepared beforehand, and are encompassed by intermediate angels, through whom they have communication...@ (Heaven and Hell 35). Communication is facilitated by raising the awareness of lower angels to that of the higher heaven so that the message can be perceived or understood. The Doctrine and Covenants states that Asome@ of the celestial heaven minister to those in the terrestrial (spiritual?) heaven, and Asome@ of the terrestrial (spiritual?) heaven minister to those of the telestial (natural?) heaven. Swedenborg describes societies of angels whose principal function is communication between the kingdoms of heaven (Heaven and Hell 27). Doctrine and Covenants 76:88 states that the angels who communicate to lower heavens are Aappointed@ for this task, paralleling the Swedenborgian idea that angelic societies tend to have a specialization. 7. Likens the celestial, spiritual (terrestrial?), and natural (telestial?) heaven to the sun, moon, and stars (D&C 76:50,71,81, 88:7-9, Heaven and Hell 117-120, 129, Apocalypse Revealed 65). I place this at the end of the list because there is a significant difference embeded in the similarity, namely that Swedenborg speaks of the heavens and their illumination while LDS scriptures speak of the bodies of the inhabitants of those heavens. Nevertheless, the aspects of the teachings that are similar are unique in Christianity and not clear in the King James version of 1 Cor 15:40-42. Allegorically, Swedenborg likens both the nature of each heaven as well as the illumination in the sky of each heaven to the sun, moon, and stars (Heaven and Hell 119). He states that the sun of the celestial heaven and the moon of the spiritual kingdom is the Lord (Heaven and Hell 118). Swedenborg states that the communities of the natural heaven appear as stars in the sky to inhabitants of the world of spirits (Apocalypse Revealed 65). In the Joseph Smith translation of I Cor 14:40-42 and in Doctrine and Covenants 76:70,71,81; the resurrected bodies of those in the celestial, terrestrial, and telestial heavens are likened to the sun, moon, and stars. In Doctrine and Covenants 88:7,8, the Lord is said to be the light of the sun and is in the sun and also the light of the moon and is in the moon. Verse 9 states that He is also the source of the light of the stars but does not state the He is in the stars. It could well be that these verses speak of the spiritual realms more than the physical. Other Similarities These following similarities are interesting, but common to more than just LDS Church and New Church teachings. There are significant differences embedded in some of the similarities. These are explained as far as understood by the author. 8. The church Christ established has passed from the earth (Joseph Smith History 16, etc., Last Judgement 33-39). Swedenborg stated that the first Christian church died spiritually, due to falling into falsities, ending its ability to serve as a spiritual link between heaven and earth.[10] While Swedenborg lamented the loss of spirituality and truth, Smith emphasized the loss of authority.[11] LDS doctrine teaches that the church established by Christ had ceased to exist on earth among mortal men due to apostasy, thus ending of transferring priesthood authority given by Christ to His apostles. Mormons believe the Lord=s Church has a link to heaven through this priesthood, which priesthood has the authority to act for God on earth and perform ordinances necessary for salvation, such as baptism. While this similarity will pique the interest of LDS readers, it should be noted that many protestant reformers also claimed that Christ=s church had ceased to exist among men. 9. The Lord will establish a New Church on the earth once more (D&C 1, the First Vision, True Christian Religion 647). The Lord=s Church would be reestablished, the truth would be taught again and serve as a link to heaven. To Mormons this link is revelation which is granted to the Lord=s servants, more specifically those that are ordained to the priesthood and who are called to guide the Church. New Church people believe that only Swedenborg received such revelation, not church members. The idea of a latter-day restoration of Christ=s church is not totally unique to LDS or Swedenborgian thought, however, since a number of Christian reformers stated that the church had fallen away and needed to be reestablished.[12] What is unique about Swedenborg is that although he recognized the need for reestablishing Christ=s church on the earth, he did little to bring about its organization beyond publishing the Writings. 10. Little children who die, Christian or not, go directly to heaven (Moroni 8:7-10, Heaven and Hell 332). Swedenborg states that they still require instruction. Both Swedenborg and LDS doctrine states that small children are not capable of understanding the results of their actions are not therefore culpable. LDS doctrine holds that all little children who die are bound for the celestial heaven (Doctrine and Covenants 137:10). Swedenborg states that little children are immediately taken into heaven after death (Heaven and Hell 332). 11. Since God creates man in free will, God does not send man to heaven or perdition. Man makes this choice himself. (2 Ne. 2:26-30; 10:23; Alma 13:3; Hela. 14:31, Heaven and Hell 452, Conjugial Love 48b) Swedenborg taught that hell-bound individuals cannot bear to be in heaven=s proximity. Orson Pratt indicated that the wicked would rather be in hell than the presence of God (Journal of Discourses 16: 331). 12. Without Aopposition in all things@, or what Swedenborg terms the equilibrium between good and evil, the universe would not exist and men would appear dead (2 Ne. 2:11-13, Mosiah 2:21, Heaven and Hell 589, 592, 594, Arcana Coelestia 2887). Opposition means, in the words of the Book of Mormon, the opportunity for mankind to choose either eternal life and liberty or captivity and death. In other words, all men at all times are attracted by good and evil during mortality and have the opportunity to choose one or the other. This opposition, or balance, allows men to be free to choose (2 Nephi 2:16, Heaven and Hell 589). Swedenborg also states that Awithout equilibrium... nothing can come forth and have permanent existence,@ (Heaven and Hell 589) and Aall things and each thing in the universe, that is, both in the natural world and in the spiritual world, endure by means of equilibrium@ (Heaven and Hell 592). The Book of Mormon similarly states that without opposition nothing could exist Aneither the earth; for there could have been no creation of things, neither to act nor to be acted upon; wherefore, all things must have vanished away@ (2 Nephi 2:13). Both balance (Swedenborg) and opposition (LDS) seem to indicate the opposed play of forces discovered by science in the physical world which allows it to exist. Swedenborg states that men are constantly in touch with (though not conscious of) both angels and evil spirits and if this were to cease that men would appear dead (Arcana Coelestia 2887). The Book of Mormon similarly states that without opposition creation would Aremain as dead, having no life neither death@ (2 Nephi 2:11). 13. Man is not saved by faith alone but must show works from a changed heart (Alma 11:34-37, True Christian Religion 340-342, Heaven and Hell 427). Swedenborg taught that justification by faith alone is one of the great errors of Christianity. The Book of Mormon teaches that we are saved by grace AFTER all we can do (2 Nephi 25:23). 14. Swedenborg echoes concepts found in the LDS sacrament prayer. If these principles are followed, men are guided on earth and the spirit world (Moroni chapters 4&5, Heaven and Hell 528-535). http://www.beliefnet.com/Prayers/Other-Faiths/Celebrations/Mormon-Sacrament-Prayer.aspx We must live the commandments (Moroni 4:3, Heaven and Hell 528-535). We must take upon us the name of the Son, which to Mormons means to lead a life of charity and service (Mosiah 18:8-11). Swedenborg also speaks of taking upon us the name of Christ in similar ways which emphasize charity and service.[13] (Moroni 4:3, , Heaven and Hell 528-535). We must think on heavenly things, or, more specifically, for Mormons, Christ or, for followers of Swedenborg, the Lord=s Divine Human (Swedenborg=s words) (Moroni 4:3, 5:2, Heaven and Hell 534). 15. One way to qualify for perdition is to know the truth and deny it, or in Swedenborg=s terms accept the truth and then later deny it (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith pg 358, Heaven and Hell 456). According to Joseph Smith, knowing the truth and then denying it is not mere disagreement. He stated that the candidate for perdition Ahas got to say that the sun does not shine while he sees it; he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it; and from that time he begins to be an enemy.@ Swedenborg explains that heavenly visions are withheld from man because Athere is danger in confirming any thing by visions when men are in falsities, for they would then first believe and afterwards deny, and thus would profane the truth itself, since to believe and afterwards deny is to profane; and those who profane truths are cast down into the lowest and most grievous of all the hells@ (Heaven and Hell 456). 16. Celestial beings incorporate the law of consecration into their lives. In Mormon vernacular this means that our goods, time, talents, and all else that we appear to possess in fact belongs to God. (LDS traditional teachings, D&C 42, Moses 7:18, Heaven and Hell 8, 408). Swedenborg states that heavenly beings believe that all the good they have is from the Lord, not themselves, and that their role is to be tools for use by the Lord. 17. The creation and the garden of Eden stories are allegories to our spiritual progress (Arcana Coelestia vol. 1). The LDS counterpart of this idea is found in the temple and cannot be described in detail here. (Can be found in full at http://www.ldsendowment.org/index.html) 18. All things in the physical world exist due to existence of a spiritual quality cause that then brings about a physical world effect, by means of what Swedenborg terms Acorrespondence@ of the spiritual to the physical entity (e.g. water has a correspondential origin in truth, with which it thus shares symbolic qualities) (Moses 3:5&7, Heaven and Hell chapter 12) Mormons typically believe that there exists an image of our world in the spiritual realms. Swedenborg teaches that this is mostly true for the recently departed (Heaven and Hell 493), but that at a deeper spiritual level, things in the physical realm are mere symbols for the profound truths found in heaven.[14] Mormons also believe that the world was created completely in spiritual form before the physical creation. For Swedenborg, this is true through Acorrespondence@ (Heaven and Hell 89), since the physical realm corresponds to the antecedent spiritual realm. 19. God is man. (Moses 6:57, 7:35, Matthew 16:13, Arcana Coelestia 9359, 9361, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith p. 345) Swedenborg states that "God is very Man" (Divine Love and Wisdom 11, New Jerusalem and its Heavenly Doctrine 1). According to Swedenborg the difference between God and man is that while God has assumed humanity, he remains infinite in power, love, intelligence, and glory, while man merely approaches that ultimate by degrees and is finite. Before his birth, Swedenborg maintains that God was invisible to man and was represented on earth by His angels, who assumed His form when speaking with men. After His birth the resurrected Christ appears as Himself to men (True Christian Religion 786, 787). To Swedenborg, the whole of heaven, each angel, and all men are created in the image and likeness of the Divine humanity of God (Heaven and Hell 78-86). In this Greatest Human Being we find the structures and functions of both sexes (Apocalypse Explained 985:2). Joseph Smith taught that God is a man and is now exalted but was once Himself a mortal on earth. While the humanity of God is a common element there are some major differences between Swedenborg=s and Joseph Smith=s concepts of God=s humanity, especially since the LDS concept appears to encompass the idea that God is finite. The LDS view of God=s humanity is echoed in the King Follett Discourse of Joseph Smith: God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by his power, was to make himself visible,CI say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in formClike yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man....@ Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg 345. |
A mormon apologetic rebuttal can be found at
I posted to a single anti-Mormon thread on The White Horse Prophecy, which interested me. Did you see the video?
It appears that you were VERY active on that thread with proselytizing your New Church.
I am just returning the favor with post #61 since you chose a mormon thread.
Turnabout, as they say. This IS an "open" thread.
Again, did you see the video? This is a Bible Study.
Oh, gee...it's an "open" thread as was the one you used to proselytize on earlier....since the mormons consider the Book of Mormon to be a work comparable to the Bible, Swedenborg's contribution to mormonism is certainly a valid subject.
IMO you might wish to keep your future posts relevant to the subject of the thread title instead of an opportunity to act as a missionary for the New Church.
Look into the possibility of a "devotional" or "caucus" thread to enable censoring of comments.
There are no anti-mormon threads on FR.
I always find it interesting that mormonISM trumpets the Bible while at the same time yelling its not correct.
Here is an example of a deluding influence:
Asked about Libya, Panetta said it was a fundamental principle of the military that you never went in to a situation without knowing everything that was going on first.
And the Democrats believed him, because they WANTED to believe him. I think God required Panetta to make an incredibly STUPID statement, because it reveals to all where the hearts of the people are.
Look at Petraeus. He apparently is saying we denied Libya was a terrorist attack so that the terrorists wouldn’t know we knew they had attacked us. That may be the lamest excuse for lying under oath ever given in the US Congress. And a lot of folks are going to believe him, because their hearts are evil.
I have no doubt that the Holy Spirit led those men to make insane statements, so that the hearts of their followers would be revealed to all, and His judgment will be proven just.
I don't know how many times Jesus Christ himself has to tell people that claim to be Christians, we will not be married in heaven !
Matthew 22:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Mark 12:25
For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
Luke 20:
34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
What *wildly divergent teachings* would that be? Could you give us an example instead of just flinging baseless accusations out there?
Only some things hard to understand, not all things.
No one in their right mind would ever equate the Holy Spirit with a "deluding influence" much less spew a bit of inane snark along with their perfect example of ignorance, misinterpretation, and absolute stupidity.
Don't worry, everyone walks away a winner when they play the "Ignorance Accompanied by Snark" game. After such a wonderful example of idiotic personal interpretation, that post wins this lovely portrait of Snarko the Idiot !!!!!!!
Talk about snark....
How about addressing the Scripture he presented instead of attacking him?
If' he's wrong, please show us where he's in error. Address the comment instead of attacking commenter.
Of is that too much to ask of some people?
No Dave I didn't. I consider the root to be rotten, why would I partake fo the fruit ?
When basic religious tenets openly and precisely contradict what Christ spoke as written in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, followers of that religion simply are not Christian.
Like I said before I have had many personal "supernatural" and "poltergeist" type experiences they were of two types, earlier ones always reinforced mormonism, the second types after being saved were angry, the most shocking around the time of my baptism....Stuff that could easily appear in a horror movie. I will speak no more of this.
It is all over now. God allowed me to have my victory through his.
Church is not about buildings, or organizations, or denominations.
Belonging to one, being baptized into one, attending one every Sunday without fail, does nothing to procure salvation.
What God calls the church is the body of believers, where ever they are in space or time.
What's right is Scripture, the Bible.
And what each denomination believes is usually stated in their statement of faith and are not so wildly divergent as all that. If they are, could you provide some documentation to support your contention? Otherwise, there is no need to take your claims seriously. They can be relegated to the trash heap of uninformed opinion.
Here is a Google books link to the same work (Difficulties) which has imbedded links in the table of contents, making the chapters accessible from there by jumps to a page or portion.
Thank you much for the links you have offered. I'll check once more upon them soon. You've(?) assembled much there as resource, again, my thanks.
Big warning sign then that your beliefs are false.
Mark 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. Then Christ quotes Isaiah 13:10 and Isaiah 34:4 making that so called old Testament one and the same as the so called New Testament.
Paul further reiterates Christ's WORDS in ICorinthaians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples (examples): and they are written for our admonition, (warning) upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.
Christ did not need the New Testament writers to write Christianity. By Christ's own WORDS Christianity had already been WRITTEN by the elected holy prophets. The New Testament is putting down into writing Christ fulfilling prophecy. The first prophecy is Genesis 3:15 and all but the head of the serpent is yet to be bruised.
I know for a fact that Peter's writings are not within the Catholic doctrine. Specifically IIPeter 3, else no Catholic would tout evolution as the methodology God used to create flesh man.
50% of Catholics voted for Obama and NOT a peep out of Rome. Why? Well because the Pope himself is for universal healthcare. I give 10-20 years and the liberals religion of social justice will be the only accepted doctrine. And please don't be pointing fingers at the liberal protestants they are in the same league with promotion of ‘social justice’ claiming it is Christian. Christ did warn there would be all kinds coming in His name claiming they were Christ(ians)
Without pointing more directly to it, for various reasons, including I do not speak for you --- for you are fully able to do that quite clearly for yourself, as you have long & consistently demonstrated here on these pages, I would still wish to acknowledge credit where it is due.
Asked about Libya..."
Certainly, if God is managing all of the world's affairs, you are correct to identify this delusion as part of the plan. Even the seemingly terrible turn that got us four more years of BO, we as believers are called to say, this too was part of His plan. And, by this we do not mean "fate" or "Allah", but we mean by the only will of Yahweh, the God of Israel, the Creator of Heaven and Earth, the Lord over lords, the King over kings.
Thank you for restating the problem. Our FRiend Rashputin seems to focus on how ridiculous it is to believe the Holy Spirit would lead some to destruction...in spite of the clear text from IIThess. His rebuttal claims the RCC organization knows this is not what the text says. I am curious if all RCs agree with him and, if so, how they deal with the plain words from the Greek text? "And therefore sends to them God an operation of error for the to believe them the lie (sic)".
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