Posted on 11/14/2012 10:44:44 PM PST by reaganaut
Members of the LDS Church are familiar with the charge that Mormonism isn't a Christian faith. They hear it often enough, but they really don't understand why people think that. "We are Christians," Mormon President Gordon B. Hinckley insisted. "We have the name of Jesus Christ right in the name of our Church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We follow Christ. We worship Him. We love Him. He is the center of all we do"("Inspirational Thoughts," Liahona, June 1999, 3; 2 Nephi 25:24-29).
In the summer of 2005 we asked Mormons in Nauvoo, Illinois to take a quiz we called "Guess Who?" The quiz consisted of 15 relatively recent statements made by LDS leaders; we asked the participants to see if they could determine who their Church leaders were talking about. We invite you to take the same quiz. The answers will be at the end; see if you can do this without scrolling down for the answers.
His teachings "are the foundation of our faith. Everything we have is a lengthened shadow of [him]."
"I pray we may learn from his example, that we might incorporate into our lives the great principles which he so beautifully taught; that we ourselves might emulate him;..."
"I honor and revere [his] name... I delight to hear it; I love it. I love his doctrine... I am his witness."
"He died for those he loved. He reigns in the realms above."
"The more I learn of him, the more I love and revere him."
"I look to him. I love him. I seek to follow him."
"He not only gave us joy, happiness and opportunity here, but also a great hope in the life to come."
"Today, this Sabbath day, in many thousands of congregations, perhaps as many as twenty-one thousand, in many areas of the earth, our people have sung or will sing the praises of [him]."
"Of noble seed, of heavenly birth, he came to bless the sons of earth."
He was "a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief."
"Church members are interested in learning more about [him] because they love him and they love the gospel he brought forth."
"How great indeed is our debt to him. ...Great is his glory,... We stand in reverence before him... Let us not forget him. Let not his memory be forgotten in the celebration of Christmas."
"...and he shall stand in due time on the earth, in the flesh, and fulfill that to which he is appointed."
"The light, provided to the world by [him], illuminates the confusion, clarifies the principles of the gospel, and helps lead men and women to their own eternal reward, if they will but endure to the end."
The "work that has been carried out by President Young and his brethren [of the Twelve] has been in accordance with the plans, and designs, and Spirit, and instructions of [him]."
How did you do?
If you thought these statements were about Jesus—the One Mormons claim to worship and adore, the One they say is the center of all they do—you are incorrect. In each statement above, the speaker was talking about Joseph Smith.
Quotes with References
His teachings "are the foundation of our faith. Everything we have is a lengthened shadow of [him]." (15th President Gordon B. Hinckley, Church News, 3/19/2005, p.3.)
"I pray we may learn from his example, that we might incorporate into our lives the great principles which he so beautifully taught; that we ourselves might emulate him;..." (Thomas Monson (First Presidency), Ensign, 6/1994, p.7.)
"I honor and revere [his] name... I delight to hear it; I love it. I love his doctrine... I am his witness." (2nd President Brigham Young, quoted in Ensign, 1/1996, p.7.)
"He died for those he loved. He reigns in the realms above." (3rd President John Taylor, Hymns #296, "The Seer, Joseph, The Seer." While this hymn was written in the 18th century, it is still in use as evidenced by its performance by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir during the 175th Semi-Annual General Conference of the LDS Church in October, 2005.)
"The more I learn of him, the more I love and revere him." (Apostle Joseph B. Wirthlin, Church News, 2/19/2005, p.5.)
"I look to him. I love him. I seek to follow him." (15th Gordon B. Hinckley, Church News, 12/13/2003, p.3.)
"He not only gave us joy, happiness and opportunity here, but also a great hope in the life to come." (Apostle L. Tom Perry, Church News, 7/3/1993, p.4.)
"Today, this Sabbath day, in many thousands of congregations, perhaps as many as twenty-one thousand, in many areas of the earth, our people have sung or will sing the praises of [him]." (15th President Gordon B. Hinckley, Ensign, 9/1994, p.62.)
"Of noble seed, of heavenly birth, he came to bless the sons of earth." (John Taylor, Hymns #296, "The Seer, Joseph, The Seer.")
He was "a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief." (BYU Professor Robert Millet, Ensign, 9/1994, p.19.)
"Church members are interested in learning more about [him] because they love him and they love the gospel he brought forth." (LDS Church Historian Glen M. Leonard, Church News, 12/6/1997, p.4.)
"How great indeed is our debt to him. ...Great is his glory,... We stand in reverence before him... Let us not forget him. Let not his memory be forgotten in the celebration of Christmas." (15th President Gordon B. Hinckley, Ensign, 12/1997, p.2.)
"...and he shall stand in due time on the earth, in the flesh, and fulfill that to which he is appointed." (Church News, 7/19/1994, p.5.)
"The light, provided to the world by [him], illuminates the confusion, clarifies the principles of the gospel, and helps lead men and women to their own eternal reward, if they will but endure to the end." (Church News, 12/13/1997, p.16.)
The "work that has been carried out by President Young and his brethren [of the Twelve] has been in accordance with the plans, and designs, and Spirit, and instructions of [him]." (George A. Smith (First Presidency), quoted in Church News, 12/20/1997, p.7.)
When you mind your own business, then I’ll mind my own business. While you are minding the business of others, then your business will get minded by others.
I am not a hypcrite at all.
Furthermore, I do not care at all about Mormon doctrine or any other doctrine. I have no interest in religion whatsoever, I do not wish to be controlled, and I do not wish to associate with those who seek to control.
Mind your own business if you can, but I bet you can’t.
Are you trying to break the record, Chris, for most self-refuting statements in a single thread?
ALL: Note how "absolute" Chris sounds in this statement.
At first, you'd think this is kind of a "humble" statement, that somebody is saying they are simply ignorant of ultimate purposes in life & origins of life.
But Chris adds a hard-core absolute onto this statement...He is not simply giving personal "anti-testimony," he makes the UNIVERSAL claim that it's beyond ANYBODY's ability to know these things.
So, here Chris seemingly objects to others religious absolutes; but look how quick he to make some sort of absolute omniscient claim here.
Any more self-refuting comments from Chris' commentary on this thread?
Ok, great. People are crazy, I’ve known that for some time now.
Like always, I will allow the mittbots to call me a liar first BEFORE I post referenced quotation by their own leaders out of their own books.
I want freepers to witness first hand the coverup.
One thing I do know for certain is that people fear their own mortality
- - - - -
I have no such fear. I’m perfectly willing to die for my faith and perfectly fine if I die today.
Kind of similar to what the Quran says...
Sorry, I’m not going to do that at all. I do not intend to nor do I have any need to share.
That is part of your belief system, it is not part of mine.
Sipping Single Malt Scotch before bed ... don’t you wake up thirsty?
(It's seemingly usually the same not-so-merry band of those who bash us who critique Mormonism...so if you don't have a dog -- or god -- in this fight...why are you pushing your 'crap?')
“You are wrong, based on lack of personal experience, to put the values of what you know of different Christian demoninations onto mormonism. It is in a wholly different class. It is a brainwashing, all controlling, all taking, mind-numbing CULT. They do not allow you your own time, possession, speech, family or even thoughts.”
If you do believe in or agree with their belief system and way of life, then don’t join it...
All religions are very similar to what you have described in some ways.
They are essentially follow our path and only our path and you shall be rewarded in the afterlife for those efforts.
I’m sorry, but I see religion as a form of mass mind control. I certainly do not see it as something that God created. Man created it for his own purposes.
All paths are not valid.
The path you take is the path you take.
If all paths were valid, then the path of the murderer would be valid, when obviously it is not valid.
If you allow Jesus to live in you, then you will know the difference between right and wrong. If you do not, then you may have a harder time distinguishing.
Whatever the case, we have the free will to choose the path we walk upon.
When you post such material you open yourself to reply.
Furthermore, I do not care at all about Mormon doctrine or any other doctrine. I have no interest in religion whatsoever, I do not wish to be controlled, and I do not wish to associate with those who seek to control.
OK, so I post the words of Jesus - you know, the one you said you follow - and now his words become 'religion' and 'doctrine'. Interesting 'relationship' you have with him.
Would have thrown stones at the Apostle Paul too? just asking.
These are taken from a book called “Conviction without Compromise” by Norman Geisler and Ron Rhodes. The authors go through why these are the core doctrines and how certain groups deny them. They also cover what should be divisive and what shouldn’t (non salvific doctrines) and why. They also cover the sufficiency of Scripture even if it isn’t listed. It is an excellent book and one I recommend.
http://www.amazon.com/Conviction-Without-Compromise-Standing-Christian/dp/0736922202
14 Core (essential) beliefs of Christianity….
1. God’s Unity
2. God’s Tri-unity
3. Christ’s deity
4. Christ’s humanity
5. Human depravity
6. Christ’s Virgin Birth
7. Christ’s sinlessness
8. Christ’s atoning death .
9. Christ’s bodily resurrection
10. The necessity of Grace
11. The necessity of Faith
12. Christ’s Bodily Ascension
13. Christ’s priestly intercession
14. Christ’s bodily second coming
Nope. I drink the whole thing and wake up thinking “Gotta go to the store today...”
So what exactly is the quorum (iow, how many exact people) have to pass your "check" for minding their biz before you mind yours?
And where exactly can we go to get your official "I can mind others' biz" religious license?
Then, I, too, can clamor: "I'll start minding my biz when Chris & others start minding theirs."
I think your posts are among the most inconsistent unthought-thru juvenile series of posts we've seen...
Oh, so now the words of Jesus are no different from mohammad's. How refreshing to hear that from you. Really lets us know the depths of your opinions here.
We are Christians Chris, we are our brother's keeper. It is our commanded duty to warn. We warn because we love. These here that you are chiding, these here right now are who and how I was saved. Right here on FR 5 years ago.
Also, do you really consider Harry Reid's antics what the mormons are "doing in their own lives"?
You apparently do not know how to read.
I did not make any absolute statement at all.
I said that I do not BELIEVE anyone knows...
I did not say that no one knows.
If someone out there has the answers to the great question for 100% fact, then by all means let that person explain the nature of our existence. I do not mean beliefs or belief systems, I mean hard, cold, pure fact.
For my own sake, the purpose of life is to live it as well as you can with the guidance of Jesus. As far as the origins of life, I believe that God created it, but you know what, I cannot say that with 100.00% certainty, because I do not know, I wasn’t there. But that what I believe, and I am not going to go shout that belief on a street corner at everyone who passes.
Exactly, but I know people (even a few LCMS Lutherans) who put their faith in the Organization rather than Jesus.
You can be ‘religious’ and NOT know Christ at all. Or you can use those things to draw you closer to Christ. I have seen it both ways.
when I was LDS I was REALLY into ‘organized religion’ but I had no idea who Christ was.
Now, I know who Christ is and understand the role of rites and rituals but that is not where I place my faith.
Even if what they believe is going to land them in hell? How is that loving them to let them do that? If I had lifesaving medical treatment that would save someone's life and was trying to share that, would you tell me to *Mind your own business*? instead of *forcing* them to get healthy?
Look, I am not interested in forcing someone into some religion or even forcing them to accept Christ. They have free will and are free to choose or reject and the only one they have to answer to is God.
However, as a follower of Christ, I am duty bound by His command, to share the gospel. What they do with it is THEIR responsibility. Mine is fulfilled by speaking out.
Mark 16:15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.
Acts 1:8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
2 Corinthians 5:11 Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade others.
2 Corinthians 5:17-21 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. 18 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Romans 10:6-17 6 But the righteousness based on faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
God didn't save me or anyone else to keep it to ourselves while others go to hell.
You can tell others all you want to mind their own business, but their eternal destiny IS our business. We have a lot more to answer for and someone greater than you to answer TO if we don't.
I want to stand before God with a clear conscience. He's the only one I need to answer to and care to answer to. Nobody else has to like what I do when I share the gospel.
LOL.
Excellent fresh pt...one I've never heard stated before.
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