"If this is not real, then nothing is real. "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.""
Absolutely! But, as I said before, it is a mile wide leap from Jesus saying this to the ritual of a special man being designated to take bread and wine, lift the chalice or loaf up, speak words and have those words/his office/the act transubstantiate the elements into the real body & and blood of Jesus.
If He meant it to constitute a directive to begin such a ritual, then what do we do with "I am the door." "I am the shepherd" "I am the sheepgate"? Do we have a special man stand before a door and speak words to transform it into Jesus? Please notice that is precisely what is taking place in the so-called "eucharist".
But, the distinctions between us continue. Whence cometh faith? To the Catholic (correct me if I am wrong, please), faith is that act of trust initiated by the petitioner. It derives from a free will which is able to choose or reject Jesus. This is what makes salvation "just". Those who choose are rewarded with salvation; those who reject get their just desserts. God is calling to all men, but only those who bend their will respond. But, this is a derivation of men.
Those clinging to the message of the Scriptures, alone, find Paul saying, "So then it does not depend upon the man who chooses or the man who acts, but upon God...And He will have mercy upon whom He has mercy, and harden whom He desires." Such claims nullifies the effects of relying upon the sacraments...and really anything a man claims to bring about his salvation. In the Scriptures, men are not the gatekeepers, God is. This severely collides with Rome's additions to the Gospel.
“If He meant it to constitute a directive to begin such a ritual, then what do we do with “I am the door.” “I am the shepherd” “I am the sheepgate”? Do we have a special man stand before a door and speak words to transform it into Jesus? Please notice that is precisely what is taking place in the so-called “eucharist”.”
Jesus used a lot of material objects to describe Himself—He said, “I am the Light.” “I am the Door.” “I am the Shepherd.”
But He never said, “That light is Me.” “That door is Me.” “That shepherd is Me.”
However, He did say, “That Bread is Me. That Wine is Me.”
35[COLOR=”Blue”]Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.[/COLOR] 36 But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
41 So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?” 43 Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. 44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me— 46 not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father. 47 [COLOR=”blue”]Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”[/COLOR]
52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 So Jesus said to them, [COLOR=”blue”]“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread [3] the fathers ate and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”[/COLOR] 59 Jesus [4] said these things in the synagogue, as he taught at Capernaum.
The Words of Eternal Life
60 [COLOR=”Blue”]When many of his disciples heard it, they said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?” 61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were grumbling about this, said to them, “Do you take offense at this?[/COLOR] 62 Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) 65 [COLOR=”Blue”]And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”[/COLOR]
66 After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him. 67[COLOR=”blue”] So Jesus said to the Twelve, “Do you want to go away as well?” 68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life, 69 and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.”[/COLOR] 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the Twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.” 71 He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the Twelve, was going to betray him.
So, how much do you believe of what Jesus said? 36 verses just here to tell you to eat His flesh and drink His blood or you have no life in you.
Tell me, is he nuts, is he a liar? Or is He God?, and He is telling you the Truth.
Sorry for the delay. I went out and, while raking leaves, tripped on uneven groun) and banged my left knee and elbow pretty hard. Nothing broken, but that was the elbow I crunched up 4 1/2 years ago in a bike crash and it's always easy to hurt and long to heal. Aching all over this morning, stood in bed (as we say) --- OK, now I'm back at the keyboard again.
I don't want to argue a bunch about the Eucharist right now, but maybe later when I have something new to offer instead of the same-old "But John 6!" "Wild Semitic hyerbole!" "Come let us adore!" "Uhh, he said He's a door?" "Did He?" "Didn't He?" "Didache!" "Didache right back atcha!"
Beinst my Don-o is Russian Orthodox, I'm always mindful that different terminology someimes approaches the same Truth. I don't say all the differenes are "just" terminology, but that can be a a lot of it.
One thing I do want to say about the "I am the Door," "I am the shepherd," "I am the sheepgate," examples. When He said that, it is not recorded that this provoked major problems with any of his disciples. People didn't jump up and say,
In other words, they were sensible people who knew a metaphor when they heard one. But "I am the Bread of Life... Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you will no life within you..." Controversy, crisis, and a major walk-out. One wonders why there was such a difference.
And why Jesus didn't yell, "Wait! Come back! It's just a manner of speaking!"
:o)
OK, have a good evening. I'm over-and-out until tomorrow.