[Josephat]

I think we must have “free will” to choose God and that is basically all we have to do for salvation. If we choose God and His plan, which, of course includes Jesus, we believe and if we really believe, we trust. It is that trust that saves us. When we put ourselves in God’s hands, we are seldom dissappointed and when things don’t seem to be working the way we think they should it is particularily important to rely on God. Your faith will be rewarded.

[American Constitutionalist]

In the 12th chapter of the book of Hebrews the bible tells us that " OUR FAITH " is produced by another.

Does not ?
The bible say ? that Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith ?

So ?
If God is the author and finisher of our faith ?
Then ? it was produced in us by the holy spirit working on us and in us ?

Therefore ? " FREE WILL " had nothing to do with God sending the holy spirit to regenerate us ?
Right ?
and ?
If the holy spirit was the one who produced, who was the author and will be the finisher of our faith ? then ? free will has nothing to do with it.

In the book of Ephesians 2nd chapter.

2. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

All of us were " DEAD " in our trespasses ?
Isn't that correct ?
We were eternally separated from GOD in our sins and trespasses against him.
As far as GOD was concerned we were dead, no hope for us.
But GOD who is rich in MERCY made us alive in Christ.

How can a spiritually dead man make him self alive unto GOD ?

The bible also tells us, that NONE, yes, none seek after GOD.

Abraham didn't seek GOD, GOD seek after Abraham and chose him.

The free willers tell us, that some how we in our own free wills some how seeked GOD and some how made our selves alive.
How can a already dead man make him self alive unto GOD when GOD saw them all dead in sins and trespasses ?

Yeah, Yeah, all the old strawman arguments of " well then ? if there is no " FREE WILL " why bother to evangelize when these people are going to be saved anyway " ...

Why preach the Gospel and Evangelize ?

Maybe because God tell's us to ?
He commands us to go out unto the fields that are white unto harvest.

The bible says in the book of ACTS:
Acts 13:48

And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

See that word ? ORDAINED ? means, appointed.

There is no " FREE WILL " there.

All this mumbo jumbo strawman argument that some how God knows all things and looked down the corridor of time and these people with their " FREE WILLS " believed on Christ, therefore GOD predestined them, saved them.

Predetermined, Ordained means to have made a choice, to make a decreed, to determine before hand.


They say ?

Well GOD saw these people come to faith to Christ.

Once again ? someone coming to the faith is not their own doing.
Who did it ? who is the " author and finisher " of our faith ?

Even IF God looked down the corridor of time and saw these people coming to faith in Christ is because GOD sent the holy spirit to these people to work on their hearts and give them this gift of faith in Christ.


It's all by GOD's doing, not mans.


Free will speaks of being independent of GOD.

The only " BEING " in this universe who has true " FREE and SOVEREIGN WILL " is GOD and GOD alone.

That so called " FREE WILL " is what cause Lucifer to rise up in his pride and said to himself that he wanted to be like GOD, to ascend to GOD's throne, and be above GOD's throne.

Besides ?

How can any one be " DOING THE FATHER'S WILL " when they are stuck on them selves in their own " FREE WILL " ?

Can't have both, saying that your doing thy father's will and at the same time have free will.

Free will is anti-doing thy father's will.
To do thy father's will ?

You have to humble your self in your own " FREE WILL " and submit your self to GOD's will, not yours.

That's what the true meaning of what humility is... denying your self and your " FREE WILL ".