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To: Springfield Reformer

No I did not read the link, and I only scanned your lengthy post. I have one question and you answered it obliquely: that Baptists are not “dualists, gnostics”. I will take it that you are not Manicheans nor Albigensians as well.

Good to know.

When the so-called reformers take responsibility for the so-called reformation and the countless souls that were lost to Christ because of your theological charlatanism, we can talk possibility of blemishes on the Holy Catholic Church in crushing heresies. At this point, I’d say we did not crush enough.


15 posted on 11/05/2012 5:42:57 AM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex
I will take it that you are not Manicheans nor Albigensians as well. Good to know.

But I didn't say that. I said Baptists are not gnostics, dualists, or any number of other things typically associated with "Albigensianism." But how can we know whether Baptists are like Albigensians until we know, with certainty, what it meant to be an Albigensian?

Where, for example, may I find a confessional statement, crafted by a practicing Albigensian of the relevant period, that incontrovertibly proves them to be gnostic, dualist, or any other heresy tag you may wish to apply? I'm not saying there are no such evidences, only that I am fascinated at the lack of them in these discussions.

As for taking responsibility for the spiritual consequences of the Reformation, you are again front-loading your assertion with the presumption that departure from Rome was a bad thing, and that is yet another fact not in evidence.

At this point, I’d say we did not crush enough.

Now how am I to understand this statement? The mode of "crushing," say, the Albigensian "aberration" would be acceptable to you? I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, only trying to understand the words you actually used. If by "crushing," you mean to imply the powers of ordinary persuasive communication, that would be understandable.

But if by crushing you mean to say that the original murderers of the Albigensians were some how lax in their murdering and didn't wipe out enough heretics, whether man, woman, or child, to suit your tastes, that would have quite a different meaning.

After all, I am to you just another irritating heretic, right? As would be my wife, my children, my young grandchild. If you held the sword of the Holy Roman Empire in your hand, and could exercise it with impunity, would you run us through with it, or would you merely try to persuade us of the error of our ways?

Peace,

SR

16 posted on 11/05/2012 7:17:53 PM PST by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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