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Cardinal Carlo Martini Says Church '200 Years Behind'
BBC ^ | 9/1/12

Posted on 09/01/2012 3:31:54 PM PDT by marshmallow

Italian Cardinal Carlo Maria Martini has described the Roman Catholic Church as being "200 years behind" the times.

The cardinal died on Friday, aged 85.

Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera has published his last interview, recorded in August, in which he said: "The Church is tired... our prayer rooms are empty."

Martini, once tipped as a future pope, urged the Church to recognise its errors and to embark on a radical path of change, beginning with the Pope.

Thousands of people have been filing past his coffin at Milan's cathedral, where he was archbishop for more than 20 years.

The cardinal, who had retired from the post in 2002, suffering from Parkinson's Disease, is to be buried on Monday.

'Old culture'

Martini, a popular figure with liberal stances on many issues, commanded great respect from both Pope John Paul II and his successor Pope Benedict XVI.

The cardinal - a member of the Jesuit religious order - was often critical in his writings and comments on Church teaching, says the BBC's David Willey in Rome.

He was a courageous and outspoken figure during the years he headed Europe's largest Catholic diocese, our correspondent says.

Cardinal Martini gave his last interview to a fellow Jesuit priest, Georg Sporschill, and to a journalist at the beginning of August when he knew his death was approaching.

The cardinal had returned to Italy from Jerusalem, where he had settled on retirement in 2002 to continue his biblical studies.

Catholics lacked confidence in the Church, he said in the interview. "Our culture has grown old, our churches are big and empty and the church bureaucracy rises up, our religious rites and the vestments we wear are pompous."

(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: martini
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Currently the top story on the BBC web site, believe it or not....together with over 800 comments. They're really pushing this for all it's worth. I imagine the National Catholic Reporter will also try to canonize Martini in the coming days, also.
1 posted on 09/01/2012 3:31:56 PM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow
Reading too quickly. I thought he said "the vestments we wear are pom-poms."

(Martini with pom-pom.)

2 posted on 09/01/2012 3:39:37 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Point of clarification?)
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To: marshmallow

I remember when Pope JPII died his name came up as a possibility for Pope. Traditional, faithful Catholics were not in favor of his election to the papacy because he had a history of liberal causes and interpretaiton of all the rules.


3 posted on 09/01/2012 3:51:52 PM PDT by Gumdrop
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To: marshmallow
"The Church is tired... our prayer rooms are empty."

So God should bow to the wishes of man???

4 posted on 09/01/2012 3:54:34 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: marshmallow
This Catholic maintains confidence in the Catholic Church - it should be purged of those who profess themselves to be Catholic while working actively against the Church's teachings.

My own parish church, while reasonably large, is bursting at the seams. Our rites, despite considerable pejoration resulting from changes spurred in the name of Vatican II, are timeless and sacred. They are not "pompous" - they reflect the nature of the Sacred Mysteries they commemorate.

I might add that the many ministries of my parish reach constituencies not served by government programs. Perhaps that is not the case in Cardinal Martini's diocese. The Church in Europe may be moribund - the Church in America is vibrant!



Genuflectimus non ad principem sed ad Principem Pacis!

Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name. (Isaiah 49:1 KJV)

5 posted on 09/01/2012 3:58:03 PM PDT by ConorMacNessa (HM/2 USN, 3/5 Marines RVN 1969 - St. Michael the Archangel defend us in Battle!)
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To: marshmallow

Hopefully, the church is 2000 years behind.


6 posted on 09/01/2012 3:58:45 PM PDT by Raycpa
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To: marshmallow

Sounds like he was promoted to a desk job, and then they took away his stapler.


7 posted on 09/01/2012 4:12:39 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: marshmallow

Your Eminence, trust me on this: Modernity is overrated.


8 posted on 09/01/2012 4:17:32 PM PDT by RichInOC (Palin 2012: The Perfect Storm.)
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To: Raycpa
Hopefully, the church is 2000 years behind.

Exactly. There are plenty of "new wave" churches for the trendy parishioners. One of my neighbors belongs to a church that periodically holds a vote of the elders to determine how they will interpret the bible.

9 posted on 09/01/2012 4:25:58 PM PDT by oldbrowser (They are marxists, don't call them democrats)
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"Son of man, I have made thee a watchman to the house of Israel: and thou shalt hear the word out of my mouth, and shalt tell it them from me. If, when I say to the wicked, Thou shalt surely die: thou declare it not to him, nor speak to him, that he may be converted from his wicked way, and live: the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but I will require his blood at thy hand. But if thou give warning to the wicked, and he be not converted from his wickedness, and from his evil way: he indeed shall die in his iniquity, but thou hast delivered thy soul. Moreover if the just man shall turn away from his justice, and shall commit iniquity: I will lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die, because thou hast not given him warning: he shall die in his sin, and his justices which he hath done, shall not be remembered: but I will require his blood at thy hand. But if thou warn the just man, that the just may not sin, and he doth not sin: living he shall live, because thou hast warned him, and thou hast delivered thy soul." Ezechiel 3:17-21

Martini had much to answer for during his particular judgment.

Cardinal Martini Has Had Too Many Martinis: Now Supporting Gay Marriage.

10 posted on 09/01/2012 4:28:11 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: marshmallow

His argument in one sentence: “In order to grow we must stop stop standing for Truth and instead promote what’s popular.”


11 posted on 09/01/2012 4:28:41 PM PDT by LaserJock
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To: marshmallow

I wonder how he would explain the fact that Islam is the fastest growing religion - it isn’t 200 years behind the times but more like 1300?


12 posted on 09/01/2012 5:00:02 PM PDT by aquila48
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To: marshmallow

Prayers for a misguided soul.


13 posted on 09/01/2012 5:11:07 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (If you like lying Socialist dirtbags, you'll love Slick Willard)
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To: HarleyD
Sounds like this guy NEEDED a retirement of bible study.

Although, I don't think he retired, so much as was told to retire.

14 posted on 09/01/2012 6:28:49 PM PDT by Celtic Cross (The brain is the weapon; everything else is just accessories. --FReeper Joe Brower)
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To: marshmallow

I’m sure Cardinal Martini had his good points, but I’m glad that the Holy Spirit spared us his eminence’s presence on the chair of Peter.


15 posted on 09/01/2012 7:07:36 PM PDT by Unam Sanctam
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To: LaserJock

Exactly. Shouldnt a true church be 2,000years behind the times?


16 posted on 09/01/2012 9:18:13 PM PDT by TigerClaws
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To: marshmallow

The Church being 200 years behind the times makes me think of some wise words.

“The pure modernist is merely a snob; he cannot bear to be a month behind the fashion. ... As usual, the wisest men of the age are not dominated by the spirit of the age. ... A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope. Millions of mild black coated men call themselves sane and sensible merely because they always catch the fashionable insanity, because they are hurried into madness after madness by the maelstrom of the world. ... The real objection to modernism is simply that it is a form of snobbishness. It is an attempt to crush a rational opponent not by reason, but by some mystery of superiority, by hinting that one is especially up to date or ‘in the know’. ... To introduce into philosophical discussions a sneer at a creed’s antiquity is like introducing a sneer at a lady’s age. It is caddish because it is irrelevant.”
-G.K. Chesterton (1874-1936)


17 posted on 09/01/2012 9:29:25 PM PDT by MDLION ("Trust in the Lord with all your heart" -Proverbs 3:5)
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To: MDLION

Great qoutes!!


18 posted on 09/01/2012 11:15:19 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: marshmallow

yes, 200 years behind the rich elites in Europe and the US, but just about right for the rest of the world...

I am always amazed when people think that their little group is the “norm” for Christianity...


19 posted on 09/02/2012 12:04:18 AM PDT by LadyDoc
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To: marshmallow
The cardinal, who had retired from the post in 2002, suffering from Parkinson's Disease, is to be buried on Monday.

Parkinson’s is often accompanied by reduce mental capacity in the final stages.

20 posted on 09/02/2012 12:34:05 AM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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