Replies

Those who want to push " SALVATION BY WORKS " only want it so to keep people in bondage and under their control, and when people talk about Salvation by Grace alone through faith, they are afraid to lose their power over the people.

I think that IS a big part of it. When some people hear that we are saved by grace through faith and not by works, one of the first things they say is, "Then you can just go out and live as you please and you can still be saved? Go rob banks and murder and rape and you will still go to heaven?". When I hear that, I realize that it is coming from someone who does not understand the concept of grace and who is mired STILL in the idea that we have to be good to go to heaven. They do not get it that NO ONE can be good enough to go to heaven, and that is exactly why Christ died for us. They also do not understand how the Holy Spirit works within the heart of a child of God.

You said, "Most of your cults...are works based.", and it is true really about EVERY religion that has ever been created. It doesn't matter if the end goal is heaven, or nirvana or happy hunting grounds, it is ALL based on what you must do to bind back to God. That's what the word "religion" actually means - to bind back. But it is Jesus Christ and Christianity that is opposite of every other religion, because it is NOT what we must do for God, but what He has done for us. Because of His amazing grace, we who were at one time enemies of God, estranged from Him by our sins and our depravity, have been bought and redeemed from the eternal death we all really deserve into the eternal presence of Almighty God to live with Him in glory. All He asks of us is FAITH. Believe in what He has done for us. Receive the free gift of everlasting life. When we do this, we are reborn - born again, born from above - and are His children for eternity.

You spoke about that passage in I John 1:7, "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. That is a very good point! It is ONLY when we walk in God's light that we can have fellowship with him. The "light" is not of our own doing. There is this wonderful passage in Isaiah 50:10-11

Who among you fears the Lord and obeys the word of his servant?
Let the one who walks in the dark, who has no light, trust in the name of the Lord and rely on their God.
But now, all you who light fires and provide yourselves with flaming torches, go, walk in the light of your fires and of the torches you have set ablaze. This is what you shall receive from my hand: You will lie down in torment.

So, God is saying if we walk in our "own" light, we will fail, we will lie down in torment, in sorrow, because it is NOT our own light that shows us the way, it is GOD'S!

Barnes' Notes on the Bible says this:

The idea probably is, that all human devices for salvation bear the same resemblance to the true plan proposed by God, which a momentary spark in the dark does to the clear shining of a bright light like that of the sun. If this is the sense, it is a most graphic and striking description of the nature of all the schemes by which the sinner hopes to save himself.

Thank you for your comments!

" I think that IS a big part of it. When some people hear that we are saved by grace through faith and not by works, one of the first things they say is, "Then you can just go out and live as you please and you can still be saved? "

The thing is ?

Paul addresses this very thing in Roman's chapter 2.

2. Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

2. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.

3. And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?.

Paul in chapter 1 talks to the Gentiles where no man has no excuse, and then he moves onto those who KNEW and KNOW the law.... Israel/Jews/Hebrews.

Ahh yes, they preach and harp on keeping the law in the pulpits on Sunday,

but yet ?

Go hire the prostitutes on Wednesdays ( of course ? when no one is watching them ).

Preach the works based Salvation on Sundays, but, booze it up on Fridays ( of Course ? when no one is watching them ).

Of course ? they would be mortified if they were ever found out and caught in their sins that they have condemned other people doing in their holy pulpits on Sundays.

HYPOCRITES !!

Am I making your blood boil in anger now Works based,keeping the law based Salivationers ?

WELL IT SHOULD !! IT'S THE TRUTH !

BECAUSE IT'S THE TRUTH YOU PHONY HYPOCRITES !!

These are the very people that Jesus Christ was talking about, WHITE WASHED TOMBS.

Of course ? they will Shout and Holler, raise the bible in the air and swear that they keep the law, and condemn those who are caught in sins, and won't admit themselves that they sin also, and go around hiding in sin on the weekdays, but want others to see how HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS they are on Sundays.

Jesus said in Matthew chapter 5 verse 20...

Unless your righteousness exceed that of the Scribes and Pharisees, in no case can you enter the kingdom of God, i.e. Heaven...

There is only ONE WAY TO GOD, and that is through the only way to GOD, Jesus Christ.

Not by works, keeping the law, philosophy, human devices.
God rejects, or shall I be more in tune with what the bible says, God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.

Matthew 7:13:

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

For wide, for there are many ways that man thinks how a man should come to God, but fail to enter into the only way to GOD... Jesus Christ.

Proverbs 14:12:

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Religion is man's thinking in how he should come to GOD on his own terms, in thinking that his works, keeping the law will save him.

John 14:6:

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

People can still be keeping the law, but, if they are rejecting Jesus Christ and his work of atonement, they are still sinning and doing evil, for they reject the one whom God sent.
Proverbs 3:7:

Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

Hebrews 3 : 7-12

7. Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

8. Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

9. When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

10. Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

11. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

12. Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

People who err in their hearts when they go about it in their own way, thinking that their way is better than God's only way of Jesus Christ.
That by thinking that works, keeping the law will save them.
They are rejecting the blood sacrificial work of Jesus Christ, counting it as common as the blood of bulls and goats and will receive the judgement, and wrath from GOD because they have put under their feet the very blood that could have saved them and offend the spirit of Grace.

They believe that the blood of Christ has no effect, no power in making them right in God's eyes, so they have to add to it... counting Jesus Christ's blood as common as the blood of bulls and goats..

So ?
If they believe that works, and keeping the law will get them to heaven ?
Where then ?
Is the sacrificial system of killing animals for their atonement ?
Since they have already rejected the blood of Jesus Christ to save them fully ?
Where is it ?
The cults ?
The blood sacrificial system of killing animals was destroyed, done away with when the Romans marched into Jerusalem 2000 years ago.

The writer of the book of Hebrews tells us that if they willfully sin:
( the sin of unbelief, i.e. REBELLION ) rejecting the blood sacrifice of Christ, is as the same as Israel refusing to enter the Promised Land ) after receiving the knowledge of the truth ?
( the truth that Jesus Christ saves )
then ?
They have effectively trampled, put under their feet the holy blood of Jesus Christ counting it as common as the blood of bulls and goats.

A fearful expectation to those who sit and continue in rejecting the very one and blood that can save them.

That generation who refused to enter the promised land wandered in the wilderness of sin for 38 years until every last one of them died.

The writer of Hebrews tells us, to fear that we DO NOT enter into that rest, the promised land, our salvation, Jesus Christ, our REST, our SABBATH.

Here is something for the works based, law keeping based Salvationers should ponder on.

Matthew 5:20:

New International Version (©1984)

Jesus " For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. "

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010):

Jesus " For I say to you, that unless your goodness will exceed that of the Scribes and the Pharisees, you will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. "

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995):

Jesus " I can guarantee that unless you live a life that has God's approval and do it more faithfully than the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. "

King James 2000 Bible (©2003):

Jesus " For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. "

John 3:19:

New International Version (©1984):

Jesus " This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. "

Jesus is talking about those who would reject him, and those who did reject him loved darkness instead of light ( Jesus Christ is the light of this world ) because their deeds of rejecting him is evil.

Jesus was talking about the religious Scribes, Sadducees, and Pharisees.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.):

Jesus " And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. "

The light of the TRUTH came, Jesus Christ, for GRACE AND TRUTH CAME BY JESUS CHRIST.... but, they loved darkness more than the light, so their deeds were evil in rejecting Jesus Christ.

Yes, the works based , law keeping Salvationeers want people to believe that in Johns letter, I John I verse 6, that John is talking about SIN, SIN, SIN, SIN, when he say that is he say we have fellowship with him and are in darkness, then, we lie and have no truth in us, but, in the next verse, John says,

*** " "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. " ***
( John is saying in this verse that as we abide, as we are in Christ, that the blood of Christ purifies us from all sin, that's present tense.)

Then ? John goes on to say in verse 8, that if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

I John I:

6. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

You and I have heard preachers preach that John is talking about SIN, SIN, SIN, SIN, in verse 6, when ? John is clearly not talking about sin when he talks about the word Darkness...
He is talking about those who do not abide in Christ, walking in Christ, walking in the light of Christ.
But, the law pushers, works based Salvationeers want you to believe and deceive you and other people to think that John is talking about SIN , SIN, SIN, SIN, when he is clearly not.
Actually ? in this context ? those who are in any sin, or sinning ? are those who are trying to keep the law, works for their salvation because they are in rebellion, unbelief.... unbelief is SIN, SIN, SIN, SIN.

Sorry Works Based Salvationeers, you are WRONG... and you are in SIN in your unbelief in rejecting the one who can and can only save you, Jesus Christ.

" When some people hear that we are saved by grace through faith and not by works, one of the first things they say is, "Then you can just go out and live as you please and you can still be saved? Go rob banks and murder and rape and you will still go to heaven?" ....

The thing is ? the truth to be know, their SIN, SIN, SIN, SIN will always find them out.
They like to be seen as HOLY, or RIGHTEIOUS in men's eyes on Sunday, but ? they say " you can't go out and do and live as your please " but, yet ? they are the ones who like to show how holy they are, but, yet are the biggest offenders of breaking the very law that they preach about keeping.
Ohhh yes, this is the truth about them.

They love to point out other people's sin, and how we should be holy, and keep the law, but, don't want you to find out about THEIR sin(s).
No wonder their blood boils and they are raging mad when you speak the truth, and want to truth to be kept hidden.
It was the same way with the religious Scribes, Sadducees, Pharisees, when Jesus pointed out their hypocrisy, they wanted to pick up stones and stone Jesus Christ to death.
When they preach about holiness, and keeping the law in the pulpit on Sundays, what they don't want you, or others to find out is that they hire prostitutes on Wednesdays, or booze up on Fridays, cheat on their taxes on Tax days... ohh yes,, this is what they don't want you to see....

PHONIES !
HYPOCRITES !
WHITE WASHED TOMBS !

And they hate those who point out their sins, phoniness, hypocrisy.
Just like the Scribes, Sadducees, Pharisees..... push the law on the people, but they don't keep the law themselves... they want to control people.

And they hate it when someone says, that those who are in Christ already ? have ALREADY kept God's requirements, and law perfectly because they have placed their trust in Jesus Christ alone..... WE HAVE A MUCH HIGHER STANDARD THEN TRYING TO KEEP THE LAW... FOR THE LAW WAS FULFILLED IN CHRIST, AND CHRIST ALONE.