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To: PeevedPatriot; boatbums; BlueDragon; Springfield Reformer
>>Sorry but you will not find anyone converted in the NT who did not repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to save them. <<

Who'd partake of the Eucharist if they didn't believe in Christ?

The context continues to be that of how one receives life in them, versus have no life, (Jn. 6:53) and it remains that it is not by taking part in the Lord's supper, but by repentance and faith in the gospel message. This will result in doing more things, but this is not how one obtains life in them

For me, discounting his words takes more faith than simply believing what he said..

No one is discounting his words, but what is discounted is proven principles of sound exegesis, as such "plain meaning" literalism would also literally turn John the Baptist into Elijah, ("this is Elias:" Mt. 11:14; Mk. 9:11-13) or believers into literal water fountains, (Jn. 7:37) and require actual cutting off of one's hand if it causes you to sin.(Mk. 9:43) Which makes a mockery of Biblical hermeneutics. Meanwhile RCs will expend great effort in trying to disallow the normal "plain meaning" of Mt. 1:25 from even possibly meaning that.

191 posted on 08/22/2012 6:43:03 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute actual sinner, + trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212
This will result in doing more things, but this is not how one obtains life in them

This isn't a faith vs works thing, if that's what you mean. I don't "do" anything at communion except internally express faith, love, desire for unity, etc. What I "do" is heart-related, not an action per se. Christ freely gives me grace in the Eucharist. If you understand the Catholic concept of grace as God sharing his very self, that he shares his very own LIFE with us, then yes, we are given Life in the Eucharist. Disbelieve that if you like, but I think it's a stretch to portray an internal receptivity to God's action in us as a "work," if that's what you're saying.

Which makes a mockery of Biblical hermeneutics.

I am grateful for having a magisterium competent to make Biblical interpretations that sync with oral teachings passed down through the ages. I understand you don't accept the magisterium, but I thank God for not forcing me to rely on my own understanding. (Prv 3:5; 2 Pt 1:20).

Meanwhile RCs will expend great effort in trying to disallow the normal "plain meaning" of Mt. 1:25 from even possibly meaning that.

I assume you're referring to "heos" in Greek, translated as "to" or "until," also used in 2 Sam 6:23: "And Michal the daughter of Saul had no child until the day of her death." Does this mean she gave birth on the day she died? Or Dt 34:6, did we discover Moses' burial place today? Does Lk 1:80 mean John the Baptist left the wilderness? We have copious examples of "to," "til," and "until" being used in ways that tell us "plain meaning" doesn't necessarily indicate future change. In fact we use it that way until this very day. We both understand when I say "until this day" that it will also be used this way tomorrow too.

Peace be with you.

198 posted on 08/22/2012 11:37:09 AM PDT by PeevedPatriot ("A wise man's heart inclines him toward the right, but a fool's heart toward the left."--Eccl 10:2)
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