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To: Natural Law
That acceptance of Catholic doctrine and dogma (aka the "party line") is a thoughtless act is a common theme amongst Protestant apologists. Not only is it insulting, but it is patently false.

No, sorry, it is not false it IS a common occurrence with many Catholics, and you cannot deny it truthfully. It happened to me, to people I know and have known and what gets posted here by many showing the "Borg-like" obedience with not a clue about the why. What I find absurd is how you can take a smidgen of my sentence and expound upon it while totally omitting the rest of my statement - that is insulting. My point has to do with the exclusivity of much of what passes as Catholic apologetics these day - both online and on television. If Catholics are so sure about what they believe, then why the constant attacks on "Protestants"? We believe in the same God, the same Savior, the same Bible (well most of it) and, presumably the same good news of the gospel. I wonder why you fail to express the same exasperation towards your fellow Catholics who post such things that blatantly go after "Protestants"? Do you LIKE arguing the same things over and over? Why not encourage them to post articles about your religious dogmas to Caucus threads rather than rant and rave at those who dare respond to polemics that blatantly attack the "others"?

Catholic doctrine recognizes and embraces mysteries. Protestantism often treats a mystery as a failure of human reason. For Catholics mysteries are are not things that are inherently self contradictory or require cognitive dissonance. We see mysteries for what they are; ideas and beliefs beyond the capability of humans to fully fathom, but not beyond a faith based acceptance. This goes to the core of our understanding of divine revelation. Catholics believe that divine revelation is the vehicle God uses to share knowledge not otherwise achievable by science and human understanding. That is why we find it so grotesque when Protestantism attempts to subordinate mysteries and divine revelation to human reason.

Baloney! I have no problems at all with divine mystery and I accept fully what God has revealed through the Scriptures - I believe every word of it. Science and human understanding has a secondary place in faith, if at all, and all that God has revealed, we accept by faith. Your broad brush is like a mile wide, isn't it?

It is strange that you seem to relish saying, "we find it so grotesque when Protestantism attempts to subordinate mysteries and divine revelation to human reason", when that is NOT at all what this dialog has been about. I take what God says and I understand it through the means of what ALL of Scripture says. What I reject is where human traditions have been added to the tenets of the faith that contradict the clear teaching of those tenets revealed in Holy Scripture. Case in point is the expiatory sacrifice of the "Mass" and the purpose of the Eucharist. BOTH which are disproved by Scripture and which the Catholic Church only began to develop after centuries of Platonic influence. I have a link that expounds on that subject, The Wobbly and Heretical Evolution of Rome’s Doctrine of “Real Presence”.

To expect that Catholics will be swayed from their faith based positions by the literary skills and persuasive arguments of Protestant apologists, amateur and professional is preposterous. Frankly, it smacks of spiritual pride; that love of self for the love of God, that is the antithesis of holiness and contradicts the love of other.

I have no fantasies at all that mere words from ANY person can touch another's heart - that is the realm of the Holy Spirit, alone. As to what you consider is motivated by pride, love of self and unholiness that goes against the love of others, all I can say is that EVERYONE deserves to hear the truth of the Gospel. I didn't get it when I was in the Roman Catholic Church, I only heard it and read it for myself when a caring person opened the Bible to John 10:27-30 and the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to the truth. I believe there are many more just like me still unaware that there IS a Gospel of grace - one where God saves by faith and not based on human merit. All that this ongoing controversy over the Eucharist has made plain is as Martin Luther said, "The external rite does not commend us to God, but the inner unity of faith and love does!". Examine yourself for that pride you seem to so easily pin on another.

185 posted on 08/21/2012 11:04:22 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums
It happened to me, to people I know and have known and what gets posted here by many showing the "Borg-like" obedience with not a clue about the why."

If the Church was actually like it is so often described in these threads by bitter ex-Catholics those of us who actually know and lover her would hate her even more passionately. What is "Borg-like" is the predictability of the repeated lies concocted in the minds of those who have been conditioned to hate the Church by centuries of anti-Catholicism. If you are comfortable in the cacoon of lies, peace be with you.

190 posted on 08/22/2012 5:58:31 AM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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