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To: boatbums

Great question. It’s a lot different than in Christianity.
I can look up if there is a connection between the two (Lucifer/Satan) but Satan is a nominal from the Hebrew verb meaning “to turn away [from a path]” So in Judaism “the Satan” is an influence to turn away from what G-d wants us to do (ask your local Orthodox rabbi what you should “do” if you’re Jewish, or, see my previous posts on noahide.org)

Here is an analogy, I believe from the Zohar (one of the Kabbalistic or “mystical” books of Judaism) about the Satan. First we understand the Satan to be a creation of G-d’s, like everything in existence. So there is no grand adversarial conflict...G-d wins. But the Satan, being of G-d, has to be explained somehow—how can there be an evil influence in the world if the influencer comes from G-d? So he is likened to a prostitute that a king commissions to “tempt my son to stray.” (in order to test the prince) She knows the king, knows the prince—doesn’t want him to stray, but has to accept her mission. But she can’t go through with it so she sub-contracts to a friend of hers who knows of the king and vaguely that he has a son, etc...and the last (the 4th—since there are four ‘worlds’ in the created state—go ask your local Orthodox kabbalist) in this sub-contracting daisy chain never heard of the king or his son—she just takes the job and intends to do it.

If your eyes haven’t glazed over, I will say that Jews believe we have an animalistic ‘soul’ (really an enlivening force—like the energy between a living being and that which is missing in a corpse with all of its faculties) and there is a G-dly soul, a part of G-d within each person. The Satan usually tries to appeal to our base, animalistic desires (worse than an animal, who eats or ruts until it needs to no more-—we have a tendancy to overdo it just for the sake of pleasure) and even worse—can appeal to our intellectual faculties, telling us how great we are, how holy, how much more refined than so-and-so... the Satan is called the wise and foolish king... he knows exactly how to temp someone. So there are philosophies in Judaism of denying one’s self pleasure (or more than is needed for consumption/procreation, etc.

Anyway....I hope that was mildly interesting...even if (ahem) the thread has strayed from the Jewish conceptualization of angels. C’mon you hard-core evangelicals!!! I’ll have to keep posting stuff...

Phinneous


52 posted on 08/15/2012 6:40:43 PM PDT by Phinneous
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To: Phinneous
Great question. It’s a lot different than in Christianity. I can look up if there is a connection between the two (Lucifer/Satan) but Satan is a nominal from the Hebrew verb meaning “to turn away [from a path]” So in Judaism “the Satan” is an influence to turn away from what G-d wants us to do (ask your local Orthodox rabbi what you should “do” if you’re Jewish, or, see my previous posts on noahide.org)

Thanks for taking the time to answer me. When you say you believe the Satan is a "nominal", an "influence" that turns us away from God's will for us, are you saying that Satan is an angel in the sense of the context of this thread? In Genesis 3 is where we are first introduced to an evil personage that seeks to tempt our first parents to disobey God's command. He is presented as a serpent and then later is called "Satan", the deceiver, that God would put at enmity with Eve's descendants:

    And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.

There are other passages that tie Satan to the "anointed cherub" (Ezekiel 28) - the angel that stood over the throne of God:

    13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

    14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

    15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

    16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

So there is a narrative about this "special" angel who, through pride, rebelled against God and drew a third of the angels to rebel with him. Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven and to the earth by the faithful angels of God.

So, on the subject of angels, does Judaism teach that there is a real spirit being, an evil angel, called Satan (as well as other things) and that he is at enmity with God and His creation? I agree that, as a created being, he has NO chance of besting Almighty God and, at times, God has even used Satan to accomplish God's will (i.e.; Job, Joseph). Just curious if Judaism understands angels in the same way as Christians do. Much of what we know about angels comes from the Old Testament, too. Thanks again.

55 posted on 08/15/2012 9:47:12 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Phinneous

If you don’t mind me posting to you, I have an observation I would like to share with you regarding one of your posts..

It is in regards to *Faith* you say within Judaism faith is not needed, because what you have is what you know...The truth of GOD.. I suppose you are conveying that school of thought from the belief in (Torah*) okay that I get that, however you were not born with that *Knowing* it was learned either taught to you by your parents, rabbi or holy books, so if you accepted that was it not by faith that you came to believe what you know???

Abraham, Moses even the Apostle Paul knew what they knew however when GOD called them out, they came to a total different understanding of what there role and relationship to GOD would be going forward....

I believe GOD calls people out wether Jew or Gentile and the ones who respond to the *Call* by Faith learn the truth which you call *Knowing*

An Atheist has no faith, so how could GOD ever call them out?

As one scripture in the Bible I think applies to the world is:

*Many are called but few are chosen*

Just wasn’t sure what you meant when you said you did not need faith...


56 posted on 08/15/2012 9:47:43 PM PDT by TaraP (On Christ the Solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand.)
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