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To: Mortrey

You’ll have to listen :) If there is a yiddish or Hebrew word he doesn’t translate feel free to ask me. For Jews, JC does not meet the criteria of Savior (Messiah.) That’s the side point of this class. Mainly it deals with who is/isn’t a prophet. However, Jews await the Messiah and pray for his coming every day (thrice!)


7 posted on 08/12/2012 9:38:33 PM PDT by Phinneous
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To: Phinneous

Considering the timeline of Daniel’s 70 Weeks have long come and gone (part of the reason why the Jews were always expecting a Messiah around the time of Jesus), the Jews can pray thrice a day for a Messiah all they want and still never have an answer.


11 posted on 08/12/2012 9:41:37 PM PDT by RaisingCain
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To: Phinneous
For Jews, JC does not meet the criteria of Savior (Messiah.) That’s the side point of this class. Mainly it deals with who is/isn’t a prophet.

For starters, Trinity = Chillul Hashem

Daniel wasn't a prophet... to the Jews. He was a prophet to the kings and kingdom of Babylon.

Matthew 1314 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Daniel, chapter 5

23. But have lifted up yourself against the Lord of heaven; and the utensils of his house have been brought before you, and you, and your lords, your wives, and your concubines, have drunk wine from them; and you have praised the gods of silver, and gold, of bronze, iron, wood, and stone, which see not, nor hear, nor know; and the God in whose hand your breath is, and whose are all your ways, have you not glorified:
24. Then was the part of the hand sent from him; and this writing was written:
25. And this is the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, and PARSIN:


28 posted on 08/12/2012 10:12:03 PM PDT by Ezekiel (The Obama-nation began with the Inauguration of Desolation.)
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To: Phinneous

I think there are really two questions that are relevant:

1. Did the Jewish people, as a whole, of the 1st century reject Jesus as their Messiah?

2. If not, at what point did the Jews, as a whole, begin to reject Jesus as the Messiah - and, why did this happen?

Obviously, in the 1st century, there were many Jews who DID accept Jesus as their Messiah. The church in Jerusalem was several thousand strong - all Jews. And, the Christian faith spread throughout the nation of Israel.

The Sanhedrin began persecuting the early church because of the huge inroads it was making and saw the Christians as a direct threat to their power and religion. But, on average, the everyday, common Jewish person did not seem to harbor an inate sense of hostility toward Jesus being the Messiah. The Jewish church was growing by leaps and bounds. Just read the book of Acts for confirmation of this.

Of course, the Christian gospel began to spread outside of Israel, and initially, there was resistence by the Jewish Christians to go outside of the Jewish family to the “gentiles”. It was a major issue that had to be resolved by the Apostles (also see Acts).

Some theologians theorize that it was after the Roman emperor Titus’s destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD that the all out rejection of the Christian faith began. The theory is that Jesus had given warning of a coming destruction of the Temple and told His disciples that that when they saw the city of Jerusalem surrounded by the “man of destruction” they were to flee for their lives. The theory goes on to speculate that it was this “fleeing” by the early Christians when the city faced imminent destruction by their enemies that caused Jewish opinion to turn against Christianity.

Now, whether that’s true I couldn’t say for sure.

My point is that the first church was thoroughly Jewish. The Apostles were Jewish, they continued to worship in the Temple in teach in the synogogues - at least until they were forcably thrown out by the authorities. There didn’t seem to be a problem for many Jews to accept Jesus as their Messiah.

As to why Jews today reject Jesus as Messiah, I think it is partly due to the anti-Jewish persecution perpetrated on the Jews by so-called “Christian” leaders and governments throughout the past 1500 years. I think there is also this cultural/family/historical Jewish foundational rejection of Christianity that makes it very difficult for Jews to accept Jesus as Messiah - this would, in their minds, deny their heritage and people.

The Apostle Paul lamented and struggled with the question as to why it appeared that his people, as a whole, were not all turning to Jesus. Even though there were many who did accept Him, Paul still saw that most Jews, though maybe not completely out and out hostile to Christianity, were not accepting Him as their Messiah on a complete national scale.

He looked for the day when the Jews would be “grafted” back into the “vine”. He obviously thought that that would happen one day.

The Evangelical Christian support for Israel goes back to at least the 1950’s after Israel’s re-emergence as a nation in 1947. This is because many Christians saw this as a fullfillment of prophecy that God would one day restore Israel and bring His people back to their land. God still has plans for His people and the promises He made to Abraham still hold true. Yes, the Christian church is the “new Israel” (as Paul mentions in one of his letters), but God is not done with the Jewish people either and has promised to restore them not only nationally and politically, but also ultimately restored with salvation through their true Messiah, Jesus of Nazareth.

How God will do this, I don’t know, but hey, He’s God and trust that what He says, He will do.


38 posted on 08/12/2012 10:27:50 PM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
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To: Phinneous

That’s what happens when leaders and others are too much into the written word and not the spirit. T Hey miss the very thing that they think they are longing for! Actually many of the Jews of that day did indeed accept Jesus. All of the original disciples were Jews! It was only most of the leadership that rejected him.


280 posted on 08/13/2012 9:26:44 PM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter")
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