Let’s just say I respect your right to an opinion.....but I absolutely, positively, couldn’t disagree with you more. One example: If your thesis was correct, Hell wouldn’t exist today. It would be a future place; a place of future torment.
Not true.
Also, sin cannot exist in the presence of God. Those who rebelled....Lucifer, his followers....could therefore NOT remain in the presence of God.
Understand that God represents nothing; He IS love, light, and life. Remove Him...what do you have? Hell.
No future, no past, no present.
“If your thesis was correct, Hell wouldn’t exist today. It would be a future place; a place of future torment.”
Actually, that is right. There are Tartarus - the bottomless pit; Hades - Hell; and Gehenna - Hell. Hades - Hell is the present place of torment for unbelievers after death. After the final judgment of the great white throne, it and those in it will be cast into the Lake of Fire (which I think is synonomous with Gehenna - Hell).
Fallen angels were placed in Tarturus, not Hades or Gehenna. There is an angel over this pit which will lead its inhabitants to carry out torments on the earth during the day of God’s wrath when God allows this prison to be temporarily opened. Later Satan will be placed there during the 1000 year kingdom rule of Christ on a rebuilt earth. Then Satan will be released briefly and finally judged and cast into the lake of fire.
“Also, sin cannot exist in the presence of God. Those who rebelled....Lucifer, his followers....could therefore NOT remain in the presence of God.”
God’s presence is everywhere since He is omnipresent. David said if he were to go down to Sheol (Hebrew equivalent to Hades), God is there. Obviously, God is not tormented with the inhabitants of hell, but His presence is there. (See Revelation 14:10.) God sees the works of men, including evil, yet He does not countenance evil, that is look favorably at it. He is not tempted by it. He does not wink at it or ignore it. But I do agree that God does not allow sin or disobedience to happen at all in Heaven where His throne is. That is why Jesus taught to pray God’s will to be done on earth as it is in Heaven.
But consider this, the principles of hell are already at work in the unbelieving heart now while the unbeliever is yet alive. His sins have separated between him and God. See Isaiah 59:2. God’s wrath is already upon him. See John 3:36. Their throat is an open grave. See Romans 3:13. Their tongue is set on fire by hell. See James 3:6.
“Remove Him...what do you have? Hell.”
I agree. Hell is being cut off from God. Even though He is omnipresent, unbelievers are still currently unable to experience the benefit of His presence in the spiritual realm except when they believe the gospel. To a greater extent they experience this presently when they die while awaiting judgment, but even more so after the final judgment they will experience the infinite and eternal pain of being completely cut off from the benefits of God’s love and provision for all that we need.
In Greek mythology, Tartarus was a lower level of Hades in which those present had the worst of the torments of Hades. I do not have a strong opinion as to whether this view is supported in the New Testament. I lean toward Tartarus also being a place where the fallen angels are suffering since some demons begged Jesus not to send them there, and asked is He intended to torment them before their appointed time.
As to Satan and fallen angels in God’s presence, I think the scriptures I cited in my previous post prove conclusively that Satan and other lying spirits do appear before God and attend His council meetings.
If you are unpersuaded, no hard feelings. There are far more important things to know and agree about.