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To: OneWingedShark
"Though I'd personally think replacing the "can't" with "won't" would be better, there is a point to be made there:

God gave us free-will, to override that will or even limit it, is to make it no longer free. (That is, the idea of a "limited free-will" is self-contradictory.)

With all due respect, the point of my post is that the misperception that free-will exists is the error at bottom. If you disagree, please give us the passage where it is taught that man's choosing is free from God's influence. I believe it is possible to provide upwards of 50 passages wherein man's choice is directed by God.

19 posted on 07/09/2012 11:13:50 AM PDT by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88
With all due respect, the point of my post is that the misperception that free-will exists is the error at bottom. If you disagree, please give us the passage where it is taught that man's choosing is free from God's influence. I believe it is possible to provide upwards of 50 passages wherein man's choice is directed by God.

All one needs to understand is the philosophy (I will provide sources)... tell me, how valuable is love that is not freely given? I mean I can make my computer print "I Love You." a hundred times, a million, what-ever I want... and how much is that worth compared to a friend saying it?

There is no comparison precisely because there is no obligation or even predisposition for it (as there would be in familial relations) because he is my friend. Freely chosen and freely given.

God, in the form of His son Jesus, has called us friends: John 15:15-17
"I don't call you servants now. A servant does not know what his master is doing. But now I call you friends because I have told you everything I heard from my Father. You did not choose me; I chose you. And I gave you this work: to go and make fruit. I want this fruit to continue {in your life}. Then the Father will give you anything you ask for in my name. This is my command: Love each other." (ERV)

Furthermore, to posit that man has no free will is to posit that God created intentionally flawed people (Adam and Eve) and therefore predestined them to sin. But we know that is against God's character, for if he does not even tempt us (James 1:13-14) then how could he predestine out forefather Adam to sin, and thereby infect us all with sin-nature? That is, if free will does not exist, then God is evil in that he purposely made man to sin; but if free will does exist then it was given fully and perfectly (James 1:17); and if it was given fully then the possibility that we would chose to sin must be included therein.

Deuteronomy 30:19 and Joshua 24:15 both deal with choosing; if free will does not exist then the conditional promises are of a fact utterly meaningless. Would you call God's promises nothing? When you deny free will you do so.

Furthermore, the Psalms declare free will (which Jesus recognized as being scripture needful of fulfillment [Lk 24:44]):
Accept, I beseech thee, the freewill offering of my mouth, O Lord, and teach me thy judgments. -- Psalms 119:108

28 posted on 07/09/2012 5:04:26 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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