Posted on 07/08/2012 2:51:23 PM PDT by NYer
The gospel today portrays the Lord Jesus as preacher and prophet. But as we shall see, even the greatest preacher in the world (Jesus), can find his powerful and precious words falling lifeless on the rock hard surface that is the heart of many a soul. Yes, even his words can meet resistance and hostility, indifference and ridicule. Indeed, the gospel today shows forth the ruinous result of rejection.
We sometimes think that if Catholic priests were better preachers, all would be well. But that is only half the battle, for the Catholic faithful must have ears to hear and hearts that are open and eager to hear the truth. A well known preacher and fine Protestant teacher, William Barclay has this to say:
There can be no preaching in the wrong atmosphere. Our churches would be different places if congregations would only remember that they preach far more than half the sermon. In an atmosphere of expectancy, the poorest effort can catch fire. In an atmosphere of critical coldness or bland indifference the most spirit-packed utterance can fall lifeless to the earth. (Commentary on Mark, P. 140).
Yes, of this I am a witness. I have preached before congregations that were expectant and supportive, and watched my words catch fire. I have also preached in settings where “I couldn’t hear nobody pray!” And Oh the difference!
I have been blessed to serve most of my priesthood in African American settings and there is a deep appreciation that the preaching moment is a shared moment with shared responsibilities. The congregation does not consider itself a passive recipient of the word, but an active sharer in the proclamation.
There is an air of expectancy in the Church as the faithful gather and listen and begin to sing and pray. This air of expectancy is sometimes called “the hum.” And, during the reading of the Word and the sermon there are nods, hands may go up, even a stomp of the foot, and an acclamation or two pock the air: Amen!… Yes, Lord!…Well?!…Go on now!….Take your time!…Make it plain preacher!…You don’t mean to tell me! Ha!, My, my my!
And as a preacher too I can call for help: Are you praying with me Church?!….Somebody ought to say Amen!…..Come on Church!…..Can I get a witness?!……Kind quiet in here today….Amen?! Yes, together we craft the message as inspired by the Holy Spirit. And while it belongs to the priest to craft the content, it belongs to the congregation to affirm the truth and acknowledge the Spirit.
How precious and necessary is the preaching task. But the preaching task, as today’s gospel affirms, is more than the preacher. But before looking at the text itself, a few more insights about both preacher and congregation from Pope (Saint) Gregory the Great.
First on the obligation of the preacher and the solemnity of his task to preach:
Pastors who lack foresight hesitate to say openly what is right because they fear losing the favor of men. As the voice of truth tells us, such leaders are not zealous pastors who protect their flocks, rather they are like mercenaries who flee by taking refuge in silence when the wolf appears.
The Lord reproaches them through the prophet: They are dumb dogs that cannot bark. On another occasion he complains: You did not advance against the foe or set up a wall in front of the house of Israel, so that you might stand fast in battle on the day of the Lord. To advance against the foe involves a bold resistance to the powers of this world in defense of the flock. To stand fast in battle on the day of the Lord means to oppose the wicked enemy out of love for what is right.
When a pastor has been afraid to assert what is right, has he not turned his back and fled by remaining silent? Whereas if he intervenes on behalf of the flock, he sets up a wall against the enemy in front of the house of Israel….[But] they [who] are afraid to reproach men for their faults…thereby lull the evildoer with an empty promise of safety. Because [such preachers] fear reproach, they keep silent and fail to point out the sinner’s wrongdoing.
The word of reproach is a key that unlocks a door, because reproach reveals a fault of which the evildoer is himself often unaware. That is why Paul says of the bishop: He must be able to encourage men in sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it. For the same reason God tells us through Malachi: The lips of the priest are to preserve knowledge, and men shall look to him for the law, for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts. Finally, that is also the reason why the Lord warns us through Isaiah: Cry out and be not still; raise your voice in a trumpet call.
Anyone ordained a priest undertakes the task of preaching, so that with a loud cry he may go on ahead of the terrible judge who follows. If, then, a priest does not know how to preach, what kind of cry can such a dumb herald utter? It was to bring this home that the Holy Spirit descended in the form of tongues on the first pastors, for he causes those whom he has filled, to speak out spontaneously. [Gregory the Great, Pastoral Guide].
Second on the reason for poor preaching:
Beloved brothers, consider what has been said: Pray the Lord of the harvest to send labourers into his harvest. Pray for us so that we may have the strength to work on your behalf, that our tongue may not grow weary of exhortation, and that after we have accepted the office of preaching, our silence may not condemn us before the just judge.
For frequently the preacher’s tongue is bound fast on account of his own wickedness; while on the other hand it sometimes happens that because of the people’s sins, the word of preaching is withdrawn from those who preside over the assembly.
With reference to the wickedness of the preacher, the psalmist says: But God asks the sinner: Why do you recite my commandments? And with reference to the latter, the Lord tells Ezekiel: I will make your tongue cleave to the roof of your mouth, so that you shall be dumb and unable to reprove them, for they are a rebellious house. He clearly means this: the word of preaching will be taken away from you because as long as this people irritates me by their deeds, they are unworthy to hear the exhortation of truth.
It is not easy to know for whose sinfulness the preacher’s word is withheld, but it is indisputable that the shepherd’s silence while often injurious to himself will always harm his flock. (Ibid.)
Note well then, the shared task and responsibility of the preacher and the people. And let these texts serve as a worthy back ground to what is now to come in this gospel which we can see in three stages:
I. Real Rejoicing - The text says, Jesus departed from there and came to his native place, accompanied by his disciples. When the sabbath came he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were astonished. They said, “Where did this man get all this? What kind of wisdom has been given him? What mighty deeds are wrought by his hands!
Thus the initial reaction of Jesus’ hometown is positive. They are filled with amazement and joy. And the text sets forth two sources of their joy:
1. His Wise Words - and many who heard him were astonished. They said, “Where did this man get all this? What kind of wisdom has been given him? Yes, what a blessing it must have been to hear Jesus preach. Could Jesus preach! Scripture says of his preaching:
And when Jesus finished these sayings, the crowds were astonished at his teaching, for he taught them as one who had authority, and not as their scribes. (Mat 7:28).
Sent to arrest him the temple guard returned empty handed saying: No one ever spoke like that man (Jn 7:46)
And all spoke well of him, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth; (Luke 4:22)
And the common people heard him gladly. (Mark 12:37)
2.His Wonderful works – They also say: What mighty deeds are wrought by his hands! Yes, Jesus had worked many miracles up to this point:
Cast out demons
Turned water to wine
Raised up paralytics
Cured the man with a withered hand
Cast out blindness
Healed deafness
Multiplied loaves and fishes
Calmed storms
Raised up Jairus’ daughter from the dead
And so we see that the initial reaction to Jesus preaching is good. Their remarks and rejoicing are a sign that the Spirit is working and prompting them to belief.
Yet as we shall see, things are about to turn sour. For it remains a sad but prevailing truth that the word of God can fall on the rocky soil of some hearts where it springs up but soon withers because the soil is rocky and shallow. Or the Word of the Lord can sown on the paths of some hearts where the birds of the sky come and carry it off. Or the Word of the Lord can call on divided hearts and where the thorns of worldliness and anxieties of the world choke it off. And yes, sometimes it falls on good soil where it yields thirty, or sixty, or a hundred fold. (cf Matt 13:1-9). Sadly things are heading south.
II. Rude Rejection - The text says [But some began to say] Is he not the carpenter, the son of Mary, and the brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.
Notice how sudden their change is. There is an old spiritual that says: Some go to church for to sing and shout, before six months theys all turned out!
They harden their hearts – Yes, the tide mysteriously and suddenly turns against Jesus. Sin has set in and hearts have hardened and the joy is jettisoned. Though the Holy Spirit prompts them to faith and to call Jesus Lord, they harden their hearts. It is a grim and tragic sin.
They also exhibit a kind of prejudice or unjust discrimination, dismissing him as a mere carpenter and a home boy. It is an odd kind of thing that the poor and oppressed sometimes take up the voice of the oppressor. And thus, these simple people of a small little town of only 300, take up the voice of the Jerusalemites who regarded Galileans as “poor back-woods clowns” and as unlettered people. Yes, his own townsfolk take up the voice of the oppressor and say to Jesus, in effect, “Stay in your place. You have no business being smart, talented, wise or great. You’re just one of us and should amount to nothing.” It is the same sort of tragic rebuke that sometimes takes place among minority students who excel in school. Some of their fellow minority students accuse them of “going white.” Tragic and sick. And thus for Jesus, they ignore his actual words and his works and focus only on appearances and background.
They also exhibit the sin of envy. Envy is sadness or anger at the goodness or excellence of another person because we take it to lessen our own excellence. The text says here, And they took offense at him. St. Augustine called envy THE diabolical sin. This is because it seeks not to posses the good of another, (like jealousy does), but it seeks to destroy what is good in others so that the destroyer can look better.
The result of these sins was that Nazareth was NOT a place where excellence was known, even among its own! Indeed, John 1:46 records Nathanael as saying of Nazareth “Nazareth! Can anything good come from there?” It would seem even the townsfolk of that place would agree” (But Philip who surrendered his prejudice said to Nathanael, “Come and see.”).
But an even more awful result of these sins ensues as we next see.
III. Ruinous Result - The text says, Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his native place and among his own kin and in his own house.” SO HE WAS NOT ABLE to perform any mighty deed there, apart from curing a few sick people by laying hands on them. He was amazed at their lack of faith.
So as we see, they judge him to be nothing, so they get nothing. They have blocked their blessings.
Jesus says, He who receives a prophet because he is a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward, and he who receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward (Mat 10:41). But they will get nothing. When we banish or discredit God, we should not expect to see many and mighty works. These things come only from faith.
Miracles are the result of faith not the cause of it. Thus the text says, So [Jesus] was NOT ABLE to perform any mighty deed there…He was amazed at their lack of faith.
There are some things even God can’t do not because he has no power but because he respects our choices. Pay attention. The Lord is offering us salvation and the Kingdom of Heaven. And either we reach out to take it or we don’t. But the choice is ours. If we take it, He’ll go to work. But if we refuse, he who respects our freedom will “not be able” to perform any mighty deeds.
And what a ruinous result for Nazareth and all who reject the prophetic utterances of our Lord and His saving help. Scripture says:
I am the LORD your God, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt. Open your mouth wide, and I will fill it. “But my people did not listen to my voice; Israel would have none of me. 12 So I gave them over to their stubborn hearts, to follow their own counsels. O that my people would listen to me, that Israel would walk in my ways! I would soon subdue their enemies, and turn my hand against their foes. Those who hate the LORD would cringe toward him, and their fate would last for ever. I would feed you with the finest of the wheat, and with honey from the rock I would satisfy you.” (Psalm 81:10-16)
Either we will accept God’s word and yield to its healing and saving power or we can expect little or nothing but ultimate ruin. It is as though you or I were in a raging stream heading soon over the falls to our death. And then a hand is stretched out to save us, the hand of Jesus, but mysteriously we reject that hand and ridicule its power. And the ruinous result of our hideous and foolish rejection is only one thing: our death. The text says, He was amazed at their lack of faith.
Pay attention, God is preaching a word to you every Sunday, every day. Will you heed and be healed, receive and be rescued, or reject and be ruined. Will the Lord be able to do mighty deeds for you? Or will he be amazed at your lack of faith? The choice is yours, it is all yours.
Even Jesus can have a bad day in the pulpit. Make sure you’re not the reason why.
If one is not saved... what is Gods future plan for them?
if you are trusting what Rome teaches to save you..nope not saved
Isn't it amazing to think that free-will diminishes God's sovereignty?
Oh, wait, you apparently do believe that.
If we draw your theology into a parallel with governance then either the State is sovereign and you have no free-will (ala ObamaCare), or the mere act of being able to choose whether to eat "bad fats and sugars" nullifies the sovereignty of the State.
Do you see how ridiculous your stance is now? Whether or not I can eat "evil fattening foods" has no bearing on the sovereignty of the State; but the same confluence that you have regarding sovereignty/free-will is exactly the same as the Statists --who worship the state as their god-- have embedded into their mind and therefore hate, just as you do, the very concept of free will.
Who said anything about Rome? I haven't even mentioned it on this thread... at all.
If one is not saved... what is Gods future plan for them?
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9
Got that; it is the will of God that none should perish. So then, why should you say that God plans hell and destruction for them that are not saved?
LOL..read that again.. who is sovereign over your free will? Who has the last word on your salvation? Sovereign God or your free will???
Most of us have been raised to worship at the altar of free will and choices
The fact is that all choices are made within a restricted set of circumstances
A man jumping off the empire state building can not exercise free will half way down.
Did you chose your sex? Did your chose your parents? Did you choose your country or city of birth? Did you chose your intelligence?
All of these things were predestined by your creator
He set up for you that parameters of the decisions and choices that will be available to you.
He could have had you born in India to Hindu parents in a low class. You never would have had an opportunity to go to school or to make the life choices you make today. You may never have heard the gospel to be saved.
Acts 17 26From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live.
All of our choices are governed by our preferences. Our preferences are part of that same creative process of the Father
Have you read the twin studies?
I read one that blew me away
Two brothers separated at birth. both had the same IQ, Both the same level of education, both loved firefighting (one was a professional and one a volunteer), both married women similar in appearance and both wives were named Jean. Both men had the same number of kids...and both drove red cars
Now these studies are done to show us the effects of genetics.
I know the designer of genetics. And His name is Lord of Lords and King of Kings. He is the great "I AM"
God has designed each of us in such a way that we will have preferences that will lead us to certain choices.
Because of the fall men will never seek God
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
In order for man to choose Christ he must have a preference for Christ. But the fall removed that preference. Man is spiritually dead.He can not choose life
Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Note here that Jesus says a man cannot SEE the kingdom of God. Man can not desire or choose what he can not see
So God gives those that are His a New heart
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
God then gives us a heart that will desire Him.. A heart that can see Him and choose Him...
Our will was put in bondage in Eden. The will we have is the will of Adam. Only the new birth gives us a truly free will. The desire and the will to choose Christ
I find it so interesting that people resent the idea that God has foreordained our eternity. If our father so loved us to foreordain our present, how much more important is our eternity?
LOL..read that again.. who is sovereign over your free will? Who has the last word on your salvation? Sovereign God or your free will???
Most of us have been raised to worship at the altar of free will and choices
The fact is that all choices are made within a restricted set of circumstances
A man jumping off the empire state building can not exercise free will half way down.
Did you chose your sex? Did your chose your parents? Did you choose your country or city of birth? Did you chose your intelligence?
All of these things were predestined by your creator
He set up for you that parameters of the decisions and choices that will be available to you.
He could have had you born in India to Hindu parents in a low class. You never would have had an opportunity to go to school or to make the life choices you make today. You may never have heard the gospel to be saved.
Acts 17 26From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live.
All of our choices are governed by our preferences. Our preferences are part of that same creative process of the Father
Have you read the twin studies?
I read one that blew me away
Two brothers separated at birth. both had the same IQ, Both the same level of education, both loved firefighting (one was a professional and one a volunteer), both married women similar in appearance and both wives were named Jean. Both men had the same number of kids...and both drove red cars
Now these studies are done to show us the effects of genetics.
I know the designer of genetics. And His name is Lord of Lords and King of Kings. He is the great "I AM"
God has designed each of us in such a way that we will have preferences that will lead us to certain choices.
Because of the fall men will never seek God
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
In order for man to choose Christ he must have a preference for Christ. But the fall removed that preference. Man is spiritually dead.He can not choose life
Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Note here that Jesus says a man cannot SEE the kingdom of God. Man can not desire or choose what he can not see
So God gives those that are His a New heart
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
God then gives us a heart that will desire Him.. A heart that can see Him and choose Him...
Our will was put in bondage in Eden. The will we have is the will of Adam. Only the new birth gives us a truly free will. The desire and the will to choose Christ
I find it so interesting that people resent the idea that God has foreordained our eternity. If our father so loved us to foreordain our present, how much more important is our eternity?
Oh, I agree context is vital.
But in 2 Peter 3:9 it clearly says that it is God is not willing that any should perish [but instead that all should come to repentance].
(The context is the question of “why Jesus hasn’t returned?”/”why hasn’t the day of judgement happened?”, and more specifically in the erroneous argument that because it hasn’t happened that it won’t happen.)
Question 1: Do all come to repentance?
Question 2: Do those who do not repent perish?
Question 3: Does this mean that the will of God is not done?
If #3 is yes, then God has acquiesced and allowed men to make their own choices and therefore men have freedom to choose, that is free will.
If #3 is no, then one of two things: either God’s word contains error OR God a liar and he really does will that some should perish.
Which would you say is correct for #3?
Or are my premises in error? If so, which ones and why?
Of course he can; he just can't alter physics (or his predicament).
That argument is like saying that because the universe doesn't bend to my mere whim that my whim does not exist.
Free will is not the same as unbounded power/control, as you seem to imply. (Possession of free will is distinct from omnipotence.)
Did you chose your sex? Did your chose your parents? Did you choose your country or city of birth? Did you chose your intelligence?
All of these things were predestined by your creator.
And how does not being able to choose any of them alter free will? Again, you conflate unbounded power and free will.
He set up for you that parameters of the decisions and choices that will be available to you.
Wait... what? Didn't you just say earlier in the thread that everything was predestined? that I had no choice?
I can't find it, but some of your replies rather come off that way.
Jn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Note here that Jesus says a man cannot SEE the kingdom of God. Man can not desire or choose what he can not see
Can you see the Holy Spirit? How then, if the Holy Spirit's job is to teach you, can you choose to listen if he must be visible to choose?
Further, if it is the holy Spirit that works in a man to bring him into a saving knowledge of Jesus, then how can that man choose to follow; after all he cannot see the Holy Spirit, and you have declared that one cannot choose what one does not see.
PS -- Lots of game shows prove you wrong; too. One certainly can choose what is unseen.
Our will was put in bondage in Eden. The will we have is the will of Adam. Only the new birth gives us a truly free will. The desire and the will to choose Christ
And you have said that God does not have any good intent for those who have not already been saved; is not the act of saving dependent on God's good will?
Post #36: If you are not saved he has no good intent for you..
Is it not obvious that God's saving is the ultimate act of good intent?
So then I ask, if God has no good intent for those who are not saved and being saved requires God's good intent then is it not true that no one can be saved?
The only way that someone could be saved in such a situation is if there is some other way to be saved; however, scripture plainly states that is not the case... therefore, because some have been saved the premises cannot both be true (as required by AND) so, which is false:
That being saved requires God's good intent?
Or that God has no good intent for those who are unsaved?
Indeed, Jesus shows us God's good intent toward us not only in his incarnation but in his teachings as well:but I -- I say to you, Love your enemies, bless those cursing you, do good to those hating you, and pray for those accusing you falsely, and persecuting you, that ye may be sons of your Father in the heavens, because His sun He doth cause to rise on evil and good, and He doth send rain on righteous and unrighteous.
Matt 5:44-47
`For, if ye may love those loving you, what reward have ye? do not also the tax-gatherers the same? and if ye may salute your brethren only, what do ye abundant? do not also the tax-gatherers so?
Or would you call God a hypocrite, commanding us to a higher standard of righteousness that He himself attains: if God has no good intent for the unsaved, then He does not love them, and if He does not love them who hate him (the unsaved) then He is commanding us to do something that even He does not do.
But this is obviously wrongheaded. God does show good will (that is good intent) toward even the unrighteous, the unsaved.
So, it must be your assertion that is in error. No?
Who was the letter sent to? Who was the audience?
2Pe 3:1** This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in [both] which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance
The beloved are the saved
What is it's topic? It is a teaching to the church on the end times.
It is not a salvation teaching it is an end time teaching
What is the theme?
Judgment and destruction of the wicked
The passage in question begins with the remembrance of the first judgment on the world.
The Flood
** 2Pe 3:5** For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
** * 2Pe 3:6** Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
Here he is speaking of the judgment men by the flood.
The judgment theme continues ;
2Pe 3:7** But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Now he speaks of the type of judgment to come. no longer from rain and flood, but from fire.
Now again Peter restates who these words stating who they are written to, the saved brethren
2Pe 3:8* * But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
It is a teaching for the elect . It is written ,It is a promise TO THE BRETHREN NOT THE UNSAVED
Pe 3:9** The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Now in the text in question who is He long suffering toward? He says it clearly ..it is the audience that he is addressing ..The brethren.. the elect..US-WARD .God is long suffering . He will not rain down the punishment until all the elect are saved.
If we were to read the Arminian reading into the text the Lord could never return because there will never be a day when the entire creation of men will be saved. So Christ could never come..He would be stuck in heaven waiting for men to make up their mind.
*Back to a judgment text : * 2Pe 3:10** But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Referring back to 3:6 &7
The reading of the text as a salvation teaching or promise in the center of a text in the center of an end time teaching breaks the flow and meaning of a text that tells how God intends to judge the reprobates in the last days .
That reading gives this text an impossible rendering . Because it would be saying the judgment He has just taught could never occur ,because God is long suffering to ALL men That makes is an impossible rendering of the text . __________________
the all is defined by the context
So sending someone to a burning furnace that never cools for eternity is good intent?
Question: Was mankind intended for — that is created for the purpose of — destruction in hell?
God sends no one to hell. The Holy Spirit convicts but He does not condemn. Those in hell have consciously chosen it over God and God grants them the consequences of their choice.
Peace be with you
I am not reading it as a "salvation teaching" --I never claimed everyone would be saved-- or a promise, but as a glimpse into the will of God.
Does it or does it not say that God does not will (ie want, intend) for any to be destroyed?
Let me put it another way: are all men created in God's own image?
Does God want to destroy something created in His own image?
Please answer with yes or no to these questions.
No, that is the result of man's free rejection of God; his choosing to be separated forever.
Jesus is the proof of God's good intent... or do you dispute John 3:17 (LEB)
For God did not send his Son into the world in order that he should judge the world, but in order that the world should be saved through him.OR John 3:14-15
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
Given that Jesus indeed was sent to save the world (3:17), and that such salvation is available to whoever believes on him (3:15), how can you say that God has ill intent?
How?
Please re-read my claim. You just agreed that God had "knowledge of something...". My point was, what was that "something" that He already knew about? It was was evil. That He had not used it only means He determined to not use it. All things have there origin in Him and are sustained by Him, "upheld by the word of His power". Should he stop thinking about anything, that thing would no longer exists. This is basic biblical theology, unless you are a deist and believe the creation is now self-sustaining. Thus, evil had to derive from His mind and must now rely upon His willingness to use it, or one is viewing a pagan god.
Computers may compute using the electricity coursing through their circuits, but this is not the same as human existence. You do not choose because blood courses through your veins. The reality is much more complicated than that. God has determined your steps, the hairs on your head, the day of birth, death, where you live, what you do, how much you make, whether you believe. You may wish to consult the Bible, rather than the philosophers.
If creation ex nihilo occurred, then nothing, nothing existed before God determined to create. (Check Dr. Jack Crabtree, The Most Real Being). Now, as we look out there, evil exists. Is it the one thing that created itself? Is it the derivative of another created item which now possesses the power to create and sustain apart from God?
The biblical answer is, of course, no there is nothing which is not within the will of God and is not somehow contributing to the display of His glory. We do not have a "reactive" God flitting from problem to problem trying to cope with all of the bad little boys and girls. We have the One who rules all and is directing this grand, yet seemingly chaotic, story to a perfect end. Even the greatest sin in the universe, killing His own Son, was done because the Father, "...delivered Him up by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, (using) you nailed Him to a cross (using) by the hands of godless men and put Him to death, And God raised Him up again,..." Acts 2:23.
If you believe, as the writer of the original article does, that God wondered what Adam and Eve would do, then you not realize the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world. God thought of it, planned it, executed it and is executing everything you see around you.
This sound nearly identical to Erasmus' argument against Luther re: the Diatribe vs. Bondage of the will.
Hi OneWingShark,
Ask them about Jesus’ parable of the Prodigal Son—specifically that the Father declares that his dead son has come back to life. The son made the decision, while dead, and started back to his Father’s house without the father.
I’ve asked them to explain this parable in light of their views, but they have not been able to so far.
If you have been following this discussion, perhaps you missed the explanation of this type of matter. Of course, the son "decides" to come back to the father. Of course we make decisions. That is not actually at issue. The issue at hand is "why?". The issue is, what is driving these decisions? Did the son decide to return completely on his own? Or did God break his heart and cause him to turn back?
If the son was a picture of the beginning of the New Covenant (which, incidentally had not been "inaugurated" until the blood was shed) then the truth of Jer. 31:31ff was in effect. ...I will put My law within them, and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. And they shall not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they shall all know me,..."
Paul describes the outworking of this God-initiated rescue as he writes that, "...even when we were dead in our transgressions, (God) made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him,..." Eph. 2:5ff. That is what drove the son home to the father; not some kind of free will choice. It operated exactly the way it did in Lydia (Acts 16:14, "...and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul." Sounds like God working...not Lydia having "free will".
Unless you are a universalist, what Jesus says about some being drawn and some not is a very poignant statement. Those who are not...cannot come to Him. This should humble us if we are drawn. Not everyone is granted such grace. Truly,..."no man can come to Me unless the Father draws him,..." John 6:44. If you believe that each man stands with his own destiny in his hands, you believe a gospel described in some Book other than the Bible.
I am surprised no reformed-thinking believer has provided this kind of explanation before. It is the most basic of good theology. Do you feel you have had an answer to your inquiry?
Yes. The language used is active.--He came to himself. The Father never pushed him, never cajoled him, never threatened him. The Son came to himself.
While he was dead.
Since Jesus Himself taught this parable, you must interpret Paul's writings in comparison to this--not the other way around. Give that Titus says that grace has appeared to all men, I come to the conclusion that you are 180o wrong.
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