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To: ansel12
I think you're missing some of the ambiguities between "Catholic" as a label collected in an exit poll, "Catholic" as a sociological category, and "Catholic" as a theological category.

This may very well apply to other religious groups, too. Jews, for sure, bigtime, and probably others.

Theologically, the Catholic Church teaches that Baptism marks one's entrance into the Catholic Churchm and Baptism can be validly administered by any person (Catholic or not) who baptizes with valid matter, form, and intent. Matter: water. Form: "I baptize you in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." Intent: to do God's will (by "God" I mean the Trinity, "the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit").

Hence theologicaly by the Catholic Church's standards, all baptized Christians have been initiated into Christ's church, i.e. the Catholic Church.

With the exception of Mormons and I think Adventists and JW's, who don't believe in the Trinity (three Persons, One God, creator of everything that exists.)

Now, you undoubtedly don't believe this and may think it is pedantic or a diversion for me to bring it up. My only point is that it can be ambiguous to label someone as a "Catholic" without some further explanation of what you mean.

For instance, everyone who describes himself as an "ex-Catholic," even if he has been excomunicated, is still Catholic by a strict theological definiton, having been once Baptized.

On the other hand, many who describe themselves as "Catholic" are not actually practicing and believing, and so are no true example of Catholic thought or behavior. An easy example would be Nancy Pelosi, who quite openly and radically rejects Catholic faith and morals, and at the same time self-describes, not only as a Catholc, but as a "devout" Catholic whose "faith means a lot" to her. Just like Lady Gaga!

< There are tens of millions like that. Ex-Catholics of this sort, if grouped as a denominaton, would be the 2nd largest denomination in the United States: a group considerably larer than the next group on the list, Baptists. It's quite alarming, one of the biggest problems the Catholic Church is struggling with.

That's all I want to say right now. God bless you, ansel12.

193 posted on 07/24/2012 8:17:40 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("The Holy Catholic Church: the more Catholic it is, the more Holy it is.")
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Only some of the conservative Catholics who are embarrassed by the Catholic vote and don’t want to exam why it has always been liberal, insist on knowing how a person voted before counting them as Catholic.

Catholics who were baptized Catholic, who consider themselves Catholic, who go to a Catholic church if they want to attend a church, and who the Catholic church counts as Catholic, are counted as part of the Catholic vote, and the majority of Catholics have almost always voted liberal.

It is a simple political fact, and has been since the beginning and will be in our future, California is the future of America.


194 posted on 07/24/2012 12:40:40 PM PDT by ansel12 (Massachusetts Governors,,, where the GOP goes for it's "conservative" Presidential candidates.)
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