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To: one Lord one faith one baptism; John Leland 1789
There are indeed 7 baptisms in the NT. There are THREE baptisms listed in ONE verse of Scripture: Matthew 3:11. John the Baptist speaking: "I indeed BAPTIZE you with WATER UNTO REPENTANCE: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall BAPTIZE you WITH THE HOLY GHOST, AND with FIRE."
114 posted on 06/30/2012 8:46:02 PM PDT by smvoice (Better Buck up, Buttercup. The wailing and gnashing are for an eternity..)
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To: smvoice

To reject what the first Christians believed, well, you can’t say you didn’t know. Here’s a quote:

In A.D. 151, Justin Martyr wrote,

“As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true . . . are brought by us where there is water and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God the Father . . . and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit [Matt. 28:19], they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Unless you are born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:3]” (First Apology 61).


115 posted on 06/30/2012 8:51:34 PM PDT by stpio
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To: smvoice
Thank you, smvoice. We are asked, "Why do you use the expression, "water baptism?" The question is asked obviously to say, "What other baptism is there?" Then we are told NOT to read their mind, when their mind is expressed so clearly in the words of their posts. THEY DON'T BELIEVE THERE IS ANY BAPTISM THAT DOESN'T INVOLVE WATER.

We, of course, use the expression, "water baptism" in conversation or writing to differentiate the use of the word "baptism" where the mediums of baptism and the baptizer are different in different contexts (of SCRIPTURE, NOT 16th century writings from Geneva).

What if a blind man has it drummed into his skull that the word "car" always means a Ford, four-door, five-passenger sedan. Whenever he hears someone say, "I bought a new car," what will he believe ? He will always believe that the purchase was of a Ford, four-door, five-passenger sedan.

If a person has it drummed into his head from early childhood by his religious organization that at every instance the word, "baptism" is found, water must necessarily be the medium, then he will argue that Ephesians 4:5, Galatians 3:27, etc. must be speaking about some use of water.

In the passage you raised, Matthew 3:11, water is the medium for one baptism, the Holy Ghost is the medium for one baptism, and fire is the medium for one baptism.

Water, the Holy Ghost, and fire are, of course, not synonymous. It is possible for man to immerse another man into water. It is also possible for the Lord Jesus to immerse a believer in the Holy Ghost (without the use of water). It is also possible for the Holy Ghost to immerse a believer into Jesus Christ (without the use of water). And it is possible for Christ to immerse a nation (say, Israel)in fire . . . . without the use of water.

There is one baptism for the context of Ephesians 4 (v. 5), and water is found nowhere in that context. Let he who thinks that Eph. 4.5 speaks of the same baptism as, say, Matthew 28:19, prove that there is water in Eph. 4:5. He could only use circular reasoning, which would not prove his point. Ephesians 5:5 and 1 Corinthians 12:13 can be identical, where the baptizer is the Holy Spirit (not a man), and the medium is the Body of Christ (not water) ; Ephesians 4:5 could not be the same as Matthew 28:19, where the baptizers are human beings, and the medium is water.

I haven't been instructing you, smvoice, I know that you understand these things. I'm just expanding upon your post, if you don't mind.

119 posted on 06/30/2012 10:14:10 PM PDT by John Leland 1789 (.)
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